Lock Picks and the Law?

[hzatorsk]

G.I. Joe,

There is an extensive thread in the FAQs section that posts the actual excerpts from the laws of US States (and many countries). That'd be the best place to get an immediate glimpse of the law as it was when that FAQ was created.

While lockpick tools and the laws associated with then probably don't change much (compared to firearm laws anyway)... there are other issues such as historical rulings that set precedent in each state. These can be just as important as written law as it tells you how courts have interpreted laws in the past. These previous cases may be similar to yours if you get arrested.

IANAL - Harold

[G.I. Joe]

so basically you can't have lockpicks in Minnesota

[mcm757207]

so basically you can't have lockpicks in Minnesota

Did you even read the law? Sure you can have lockpicks in minnesota. If you don't have "intent of burglery"

[3dway]

my bad. it's in the faq. sorry. please delete again.

[mikelkhall]

Man, don't contact the police. Not unless you want to call several different officers.
The police department is NOT, I repeat, not interested in giving you a decent interpretation of the law. Furthermore, they may not even know the laws concerning lockpicks, and simply consider them burgler tools by default.

What the police are interested in is two things. Looking like they are busy, or if they really are busy, reducing their workload. Since this is New Jersy, they are most likely going to tell you they are illegal.

Maybe we (police officers) do things different in Arkansas. You are right on one point, contact a lawyer. Police officers have a civil liability attatched to them for giving any legal advice, hence their reluctance to give said legal advice. We deal in criminal offenses, not in the interpretations of the legal system. I do not try to look like I am busy nor do I try to reduce my workload. I do what needs to be done. Simple. If I have a slow day that's great I can eat a couple more doughnuts and drink some more coffee. My point is (if there is a point here ) don't put down the police. Most of us do try to be fair and honest and do the job we were hired to do. By the way, in Arkansas Code 5-73-101 states "Definitions. 1. "Instrument of crime" means anything manifestly designed, made, adapted, or commonly used for criminal purposes;
Arkansas Code 5-73-102 Possessing instrument of crime.
(a) A person commits the offense of possessing an instrument of crime if he possesses any instrument of crime with a purpose to employ it criminally (emphasis mine).
(b) Possessing an instrument of crime is a Class A Misdemeanor.

Possession of lock picks then are not illegal in Arkansas. Only possession with intent to commit a crime.

[Romstar]

Okay, yes Mike you do have a point, and it is conceeded without question.

My problem with "the police" isn't an issue with individual officers, who in most cases are just trying their best to do a shitty job in the best way they can, but rather with a few of the "bad" ones.

I agree about the civil liability issue, and that does cause many officers not to bother, but at the same time I am disappointed by the ones who won't be honest about the situation.

I've seen bad, and outright ignorant cops in seven provinces, and six states. disappointing.

It's a hard, dangerous, and I'll be honest here, often thankless job. A lot of officers manage to get through it, and do the best job they can. Then there are some who get bitter or angry. These guys are the ones that bother me the most.

I certainly hope you didn't take offence at what I said. My own experience in trying to get police to be objective about this has been quite difficult.
I've yet to meet an officer that can see a 17 year old young man picking a lock in a park, and not get bent about it or think the kid is about to rob somebody. Oh, and I mean picking a lock the kid brought with him.

The response to older people has been little better. Officers are less likely to instantly confiscate a pick set from a 30 year old man than they are from a 17 year old, but the questions are about the same.

I just don't like seeing this type of thing happen.
Romstar

[wikky_wikky]

Wow, you guys about covered everything.

I am sortof new to this site but as soon as i realized lockpicking might be a legal hassle I read this forum, then checked up on California law on my own.

My interpretation of the law is that you can order a lockpick set as long as you register your name, address, social security number, soul, etc. to the company you order from so that police officers and people can check up on you.

Am i right?

Also, i looked at the part of this site recommending what you should get. A set of lockpicks is suggested, but are there any practice locks i can look into as a beginner?

[rnlocksmith]

This law went into effect Septembe 2004 unde The Texas Private Securit Act whihc covers armed Security Guards, Investigator, Alarm Instalers, Salespersons, Guard Dog Trainer & Handlers, Company Owners, Secuiry Consultants, and Locksmiths. must be 18 years old, No criminal record, mentally sound, honorable discharge from armed forces.

rnlocksmith

[glasskey]

the most effective padlock opening tool I have seen is the dremel tool with a cutting wheel on it. (no experience needed). but I never heard of anyone getting arrested for carrying one.

[vector40]

Will a standard Dremel cutting wheel get through a hardened shackle okay?

[Luke]

If you take your time, yeah no problems.

[vmikulich]

In California Lock picks and other "burglary tools" are governed by penal code 466:

"Every person having upon him or her in his or her possession a picklock, crow, keybit, crowbar, screwdriver, vise grip pliers, water-pump pliers, slidehammer, slim jim, tension bar, lock pick gun, tubular lock pick, bump key, floor-safe door puller, master key, ceramic or porcelain spark plug chips or pieces, or other instrument or tool with intent feloniously to break or enter into any building, railroad car, aircraft, or vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle Code, or who shall knowingly make or alter, or shall attempt to make or alter, any key or other instrument named above so that the same will fit or open the lock of a building, railroad car, aircraft, vessel, trailer coach, or vehicle as defined in the Vehicle Code, without being requested to do so by some person having the right to open the same, or who shall make, alter, or repair any instrument or thing, knowing or having reason to believe that it is intended to be used in committing a misdemeanor or felony, is guilty of a misdemeanor. Any of the structures mentioned in Section 459 shall be deemed to be a building within the meaning of this section."

Essentially mere possession of lock picks is NOT enough for a police officer to arrest an individual. There must be INTENT to use the lock picks to commit a misdemeanor or felony (such as burglary).

For example if an officer recognizes a "suspicious person" near a bunch of closed businesses he may do a "consensual encounter." He may even ask the "suspicious person" if he may search him. If the guy agrees and the officer uncovers lock picks there is no crime committed. But if the person lies about there use, there is probably enough "articulable facts" to arrest the person for burglary tools (PC 466).

Conversely, in the same situation, if the suspicious person says, "These are lock picks. I belong to a club of guys who picks locks as a hobby. I work down the street, and am going to one of my buddies house to practice," there aren't enough 'articulable facts" to arrest based on PC 466. The officer might actually offer to drop him off at his buddies house to check his story, but shouldn't arrest him as there is not intent to commit a crime using the lock picks. If the officer finds the club of guys at the house he most certainly must leave the suspicious person alone as an arrest would not have the elements of the crime which is "possession of a burglary tool with INTENT to commit a misdemeanor or felony."

To sum up: in California you can possess lock picks and just about any "bypass tool" you can think of. You can even carry them on your person without ever committing a crime (unlike carrying a loaded firearm without a permit). But if there are enough circumstances for the officer to infer you have "intent" to commit burglary you will be arrested. You may not be convicted but you will be arrested.