Cannot get tubular/barrel key copied

[Redytedy]

I seem to be having a lot of trouble getting my local locksmith to copy a tubular key. The first time, the guy used the machine completely wrong. Second time I came, the key resembled the original, but was near impossible to use. I had to wiggle the key and push really hard on it to turn the lock. The third time I came they manually decoded the key. However, the cuts look a bit off. Is this even possible? I thought that tubular keys have a certain standard, which makes me wonder how the original key could be slightly different.

What is the problem? Should I go to a different shop?



It's hard to get a photo, but the two cuts that are supposed to be the same look to be slightly different lengths. Really not sure what to do. The first machine they used automatically measured and cut, but the most recent attempt was done with manual decoders and cutters.

[kwoswalt99-]

IMO, if they keep messing it up, I would just try somewhere else. If they can't duplicate or code cut properly, it makes me wonder what they can do. For the future posters, I can't see the picture, so if I missed something obvious, that's why.

[Squelchtone]

IMO, if they keep messing it up, I would just try somewhere else. If they can't duplicate or code cut properly, it makes me wonder what they can do. For the future posters, I can't see the picture, so if I missed something obvious, that's why.

its hosted on tinypic.. didnt you say in another thread your computer cant see tinypic for some reason? are you on a work computer and your work blocks that site? I can see the OPs photo just fine from my computer.

I have to ask.. looking at the photo of the 2 keys.. the cuts have to be close, but dont measure them to the thousands of an inch with a caliper.. they look pretty good to me, is the key still not working well in the lock or is it working fine this 3rd time around?

If not, then find another shop (if you are in an area big enough to have multiple locksmith shops)

Is the key to something like a lock box that you can bring WITH you to the locksmith shop? much easier to get a working key made and tested that way.

Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

Agree about trying a different shop. I would take the key that barely works and file off the alignment tab. Use it to turn the key so it moves half-way between the pins. Now remove the key. The key pins will all be at the shear line, and can not be pushed down because they are not lined up with the driver pins.

Now take two paperclips, and make them very straight. Use a small amount of tape to hold them together. Now push them both down on a flat surface such as a table. The ends now will be lined up exactly. Clip the other ends flush if they are not even. (The version I use has two pieces of thin music wire pushed through a short section of wire insulation with the wire removed).

Now take your new fancy decoding tool, and put it so one of the wires is on a key pin, and the other is not. Push them down, allowing the wire on the key pin to move while you slide the other wire down until it stops at the bottom of the keyway. Now hold the two wires together, and pull them out. The difference between the two wire ends is the exact depth of bitting your key should have at that position!

Place the shorter wire on the tip of the key. If the longer pin fits flush in the cut in the key for that pin, then it is cut correctly. If it does not reach the bottom of the cut, the key was cut too deep. If the wire extends past the cut in the key, the key was not cut deep enough. That is how you can tell if the key is cut correctly (which it does not sound like it is). You can then know exactly what cuts are incorrect, and what needs to be done to correct them.

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

its hosted on tinypic.. didnt you say in another thread your computer cant see tinypic for some reason? are you on a work computer and your work blocks that site? I can see the OPs photo just fine from my computer.

Something like that yes. Tinypic, photobucket, etc. It stinks sometimes, I will have to get this remedied.

[Redytedy]

IMO, if they keep messing it up, I would just try somewhere else. If they can't duplicate or code cut properly, it makes me wonder what they can do. For the future posters, I can't see the picture, so if I missed something obvious, that's why.

its hosted on tinypic.. didnt you say in another thread your computer cant see tinypic for some reason? are you on a work computer and your work blocks that site? I can see the OPs photo just fine from my computer.

I have to ask.. looking at the photo of the 2 keys.. the cuts have to be close, but dont measure them to the thousands of an inch with a caliper.. they look pretty good to me, is the key still not working well in the lock or is it working fine this 3rd time around?

If not, then find another shop (if you are in an area big enough to have multiple locksmith shops)

Is the key to something like a lock box that you can bring WITH you to the locksmith shop? much easier to get a working key made and tested that way.

Squelchtone

The lock is not movable. I can't test the duplicate key yet, but I have a strong suspicion it will be near-impossible to use like the second copy I made. The second copy had slightly larger cuts exactly like this one. I don't have any calipers but can see that one cut is larger.

Is it possible they decoded it wrong? What equipment would another shop have that this shop I'm going to would not? I'm just confused because I would expect the cut to be the EXACT same size, because it's a preset factory measurement that can be decoded.

Another image, but again very hard to see the difference through a photo.

[GWiens2001]

The problem with decoding a tubular lock key is that not all manufacturers use the same size pins. Most are the same, but some use at least one or two different sizes. So a key that is decoded with a key gauge and cut to that code may not work.

Can't really go into more since these tubular locks are a touchy subject. Have given information on how to find in what way the key is incorrectly cut, but from there it is up to you.

Gordon

[Redytedy]

The problem with decoding a tubular lock key is that not all manufacturers use the same size pins. Most are the same, but some use at least one or two different sizes. So a key that is decoded with a key gauge and cut to that code may not work.

Can't really go into more since these tubular locks are a touchy subject. Have given information on how to find in what way the key is incorrectly cut, but from there it is up to you.

Gordon

I saw what you wrote, but am not sure what I would even do after I knew what cuts were wrong. I have the original key, and I want a true copy (not some filing job by the locksmith). I can clearly see right now which cuts are too big, even if it's not in the photo. Would another locksmith be able to give me a true copy, or will they not be able to adequately create a copy like this current one?

[GWiens2001]

Yes, a decent locksmith should be able to copy the key correctly for you.

There is also the possibility that the locksmith you have been going to has his machine out of calibration.

Gordon