Stopped at Customs???

by **YelseW** » 7 Dec 2004 21:39

I did some search for the legality issue in Canada. Almost everything I found stated that it was illegal in Canada to even possess them in all provinces with 10 years in jail.

Ok so this is my story. I an a hobbyist in Toronto, Ontario and want to buy some lockpicks. Using the sites you have given, could I obtain such picks?

by **Mr Ules** » 7 Dec 2004 21:41

I would also like a straight, correct, and clear answer because I'm from Hamilton and currently can't purchase them. And I dont' want to get myself in jail for possession.

by **YelseW** » 7 Dec 2004 21:42

Exactly. One must clarify this issue for us Canadians eh eh eh. lol.

by **Mr Ules** » 7 Dec 2004 21:58

most definitely. I just checked on google for some info but couldn't find any information that directly answered the question.

by **YelseW** » 7 Dec 2004 22:12

Thanks for the backup Mr.Ules. Can someone help 2 canadians here about the legality of picks in Canada and if we can purchase and ship from lockpickshop.com. Thank you to corresponder.

by **Romstar** » 7 Dec 2004 22:24

Okay, so here is the scoop. Straight poop so to speak. Do a google search for the Canadian Criminal Code. You will eventually get to sections 351, 352 and 353. The most important one is s.351, but s.353 will cause you some pause until you realize that they passed the buck and your province (IE anywhere that isn't AB, BC or SK) doesn't have any provincial legislation. So every locksmith in Ontario who has a slim jim is guilty of a criminal offence. Except, it was the provinces duty to enact legislation. No legislation, no ban on possession.

Now, lets get to s.351 The pertinent part ISN"T ".....the proof of which lies on him....." as the Supreme court has already ruled that this is a reverse onus. It's still there as a result of earlier laguage. The real part to pay attention to is this: "....under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference......."

Here the burden of proof is placed squarely where it belongs, at the feet of the courts. So, in essence, possession of lock picks in a nice sunny park in the middle of the day while you pick a lock that you obviously brought with you is NOT a criminal act. While being in a dark alley at 3:00 am crouching at the back door of an electronics shop is "reasonable inference". You better have one hell of a good explanation.

Canada, Federal Law
Legislation: Canadian Criminal Code, [R.S. 1985, c. C-46]
Quote:
PART IX OFFENCES AGAINST RIGHTS OF PROPERTY
Breaking and Entering
Possession of break-in instrument
351. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, the proof of which lies on him, has in his possession any instrument suitable for the purpose of breaking into any place, motor vehicle, vault or safe under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that the instrument has been used or is or was intended to be used for any such purpose, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 351; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 48.

http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec351.html
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/

Most Provincial legislation is available on the Provincial web sites. Such as www.gov.ns.ca www.gov.bc.ca www.gov.on.ca and etc..

Now, the provincial sites are going to drive you nuts. The Alberta and BC legislations are relatively easy to find on the provincial sites. Sask. is harder because they aren't really enforcing it.

Even though you do NOT have to be a locksmith or anything else in Ontario, or Nova Scotia, Quebec, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, PEI, Manitoba don't bother going down to your local locksmith suppliers. They are still going to give you the song and dance about needing to be a certified locksmith. Although, again there are only 3 provinces that have certifications. It isn't worth your time to argue with these people. They think you're a crook anyway. :roll:

So, you don't have to be a locksmith or otherwise, and they won't get confiscated, and they aren't going to bring the police to your door, and you can't be charged for having them in your pocket, (I just wouldn't do it anyway).

Just go on-line to one of the better internet sellers from my previous post, whip out your credit card and order with confidence.

Romstar

by **YelseW** » 7 Dec 2004 22:30

THANK YOU!

I will order from lockpickshop.com to ship to Toronto, Ontario. If I get any trouble, may I reference you? Thanks alot.

by **Lockpick Dan** » 7 Dec 2004 22:58

Wow, i've noticed romstar is good at everything. Looks like he has some legal background, programming background, picking skill...what isn't he good at???

by **Romstar** » 7 Dec 2004 23:07

Lockpick Dan wrote:Wow, i've noticed romstar is good at everything. Looks like he has some legal background, programming background, picking skill...what isn't he good at???

Quite a few things actually. If I ever told you how I got this way, you would die laughing. :lol:

At any rate, yes there is some law background there. I thought I would be a lawyer for a while, but to be honest, the cases I would be good at I don't think I could stomach. Criminal defense. I have an overly developed sense of justice. And Crown prosecutors here are paid terribly.

Anyway, take care.
Romstar

by **Varjeal** » 7 Dec 2004 23:31

As a "bonus" addition to Romstar's post, I would add something. Of the entire country of Canada, only ONE place has an actual "recognized" school, that being the one located in Alberta.

B.C. once had a program, but their insane legislation and stupid business owners that wouldn't release their apprentices for further education and have a guaranteed job screwed that royally. Google Red Deer College and Shaun Lovell and you'll find the program has moved to Sherwood Park (that's by Edmonton for all those of you geographically challenged.

Saskatchewan as well has no school, and apprentices from all three provinces are urged to attend the Alberta school, which sees students from out east as well though I don't know of any personally.

by **quasar** » 7 Dec 2004 23:51

Wait, then where to locksmiths come from in Canada?

by **Romstar** » 8 Dec 2004 4:22

quasar wrote:Wait, then where to locksmiths come from in Canada?

We're like Dwarf's. We just sort of pop up out of the ground.

Picks in one hand, and beer in the other. Just remember to hide the beer when you're with customers. :wink:

At any rate, in my province, Nova Scotia; the only thing required to be a recognized locksmith is a valid business registration. I believe the same applies for Ontario and elsewhere EXCEPT Alberta, Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

Things like insurance, and certifications are entirely up to the locksmith. Most of us like to be quite above board, but there are always a few bad apples.

Romstar

by **Luke** » 8 Dec 2004 6:14

NS sounds like Victoria . ... HECK IT IS THE SAME FRICKEN LAW!

by **macaba** » 8 Dec 2004 11:18

Romstar wrote:Quite a few things actually. If I ever told you how I got this way, you would die laughing.

Ooo, tell us all. I could do with a laugh. Shame about the dying part however. :lol:

by **plot** » 8 Dec 2004 18:10

*clears throat*

it's aboot time someone figured out those canadia laws... eh? eh?

Stopped at Customs???

Wait a sec.

Yes

Thanks

Thank you

Who is online