Carrying picks in the UK

[quicklocks]

the way the police will see it is why do you need lockpicks in a public place unless you are up to no good.
if you get caught with them and the policeman does not know what they are then you may be ok, but if they ask what are they or recogise them then at the least i think you should lose them. unless you have a reason to be there in the first place. eg- youre a lockie opening a door for a customer.
hobby picking wont wash because you do that at home not in the street. so there is no need to be carrying them. saying im on my way to my mates house is no good either, he could come to you at your house to pick.
put it like this if i was a PC and i caught you in the street with lock picks im going to assume that you are up to no good and either confiscate them or arrest you for going equiped

[illusion]

If you get caught and are not charismatic enough to convince upon sight that you have good intentions, then for the love of all that is holy please tell them the truth, and leave nothing out. If you must take your picks outside, then make sure you don't get implicated in any sort of crime, since lockpicks will likely dig you deeper into a sinking hole.

[kjh]

Right then ..
This seems to be a hot topic. I have been a glazier for nearly 15 years and im used to dealing the victims of burgalers (forgive spelling plz).
aA few people here have mentioned about searches and intent,.or going equipped.
Certainly if you are NOT able to provide upon request a reasonable awnser to why are you here ,.(asked by police) then that is regarded as grounds to search you..
The UK police CANNOT search without good cause to think you are acting dishonestly,They can ASK to search you and if you refuse that itself is reasonable cause to think you not acting within the law.,
So for all UK lockies(refusal to search) which i have never had to experiance is itself enough for the police to search you.
Then if they find picks on you they either belive you or they dont But you must have a valid reason to be in a public place with such tools.
Without above reason the police are entitled to arrest you beacuse it IS ILLIGAL to Carry such tools in public.Thts the facts of uk law ..
But generally (i wont say always) a thief or burgaler issnt going to carry picks or such items ,not to my experience anyway.
I have attended many Callouts to burglarys and break in scenes and they all follow similar patterns.
Some UK police are a bit dim But thats only because they havent came across these items before,I cant respect UK police enough ,they do a hard job for medioca money and see some sites that would make your heart go in your stomach.
really look at the bigger picture if your going to carry picks Have a valid reason for it
,Dont blame the police for trying to prevent crime ..After all were paying for them.If a man was stopped near my house with picks i would want the police to arrest them if he didnt provide a good reason for his equipped presence.
I trhink some folk need to put the shoe on the other foot .we are the security industry right. I think we all have a duty to help police ,maybe if the member from hertfordshire UK told the police what they were (when he was stopped) the police would be better at spotting trouble next time he saw some picks and so stopping criminals breaking the law ..
Pheeww got that little moan of my bedfordshie UK chest,, [/u]

[mouse]

My thoughts on the subject.....

1. The police can't ask you awkward questions if they can't find them.
A quick search on the streets by the boys in blue should be easily overcome by a good covert set.
You should start worrying if you get carted off to the local nick and they start searching for drugs.

2. If you are carrying picks then don't do anything stupid to attract the attention of the police.
If the picks are found, just explain that you were just going to show your friends what you had made.
Don't start mouthing off or giving them an attitude, they will just nick you for the fun of it.

3. If you are worried then don't carry them.
Virtually anything you may carry might be considered illegal under the wrong circumstances.

[kjh]

Any one that goes to the Police station is barking up the wrong tree.
They would have to dig the legislation out.Its not an easy Law to Explain.

A solicitor would be more investagative(pwhew big word)to facts.
I will get the subject (if there is one) on paper,because a lot of people think they know but are guessing really,
There are a few peelers on this site,if they could do the home work maybe the UK law will be set in stone.
As for the guys across the pond,if i was a copper i really wouldnt be bothered about picks id be more worried about guns..
Why is it a hot topic any way good guys are innocent.

[Shrub]

Picks are not illegal to carry, going with intent to break in is. If they were illegal they would arrest you regardless of intent or excuse supplied to the reason of carrying them.
Lockies would have to be licensed to prove they can carry them and the public would not be able to buy them in magic shops etc.

The way you started your post i thought there was somthing to come after 'Im a glazier' somthing like 'Im a glazier but worked as a police officer for 30 years before that' i deal with burglries quite often as well along with almost all the other real lockies on here but it doesnt really have much of a bearing on this topic to be honest.

The police officers who are active members of site have never chipped in to this thread either and said the actual rules and definitions.

It is not like the us over here, we are presumed inocent until proven otherwise, someone in the uk being stopped with a break in tool has to be proved to be intent on useing it, it would not get to court, if it was 3am and your car was full of such tols then yes fine its classed as reasonable assumptio that person is up to no good but see if even goes to court if no previous is on that person.

This whole subject bores me to death to be honest, if someone is walking round the streets with a set of picks in their pocket then fine whats the issue? if they can use them they can also be done for carring a paperclip as well then, if that person is waving them around in the street and shoutoing to people across the street that they can open any lock without anyone knowing then they deserve to have them taken off them,

Common sence is what its all about, you dont have any matureity you dont keep them simple as that.

Ps, i thought this thread had been locked

[illusion]

Are you going to arrest me with my safety pin and hair pin?

Of course not - these items are not picks you say? Watch as I bend the safety pin a bit, and bend the hair pin to 90 degrees and open a house. Can you say I went equiped? possibly, but many people carry such things with very legitimate reasons, so why would you suspect me?

Why is it a hot topic any way good guys are innocent.

I can't actualy believe somebody with half a braincell made such a sweeping statement.

[kjh]

well what can i say fellas ..i didnt start the thread
I couldnt care about the topic either shrub .
Illusion who got to you today, its like handbags at dawn really..
Why are you slating me ,that is obviously an insult to me .
Maybe ive missed some thing here (i dont know ).
Maturity and half a brain cell,Guys you dont deserve to be awnsered on that but here we go
Guys this site is twisting your sane judgement.
..Youre older than me and when i was growing up,i was shown to respect elders no matter what. But when you have a little dig (maturity )(half a brain cell)it makes me chuckle .That shows me how little you know about me.
When you guys have studied law enough to give factual opinion,let me know and we will compare notes.
I wont be posting any more i obviously have never attended a scene of crime or liased with government sections..
and if i cant give my factual statements with out being slated ,then i dont want to contribute.
Remember Shrub & Confusion its not what you know but who.[/quote]

[Shrub]

Youve got the wrong meaning from my post if you took it as an insult it wasnt meant as one, i was merly saying that the rules in this country do not state it is illegal to carry lockpicks.

If i offended you i am sorry but that wasnt the intention, the bored dont care comment wasnt aimed at you or said because of your thread it perhaps came across a bit wrong, it bores me because im a lockie and have reason to carry such tools, i think if someones sencible they will not even have cause to be searched in the first place.

I mentioned i thought you were going to say you had been in the force for x number of years because thats what i thought no malice intended, it was a comment.

Ive spoke with the chiif constable of my local force a few times on this subject, ive taught a few of the oficers what to look for on people they stop and search as well at a scene of crime, iv shown them how easy some locks are, how to pick locks and how easy car opening is, we are getting a lot of mole grips on upvc this area because of the press but theve all said that if they stop somone walking through the street and for whatever reason find a set of lockpicks on them they cant really do much.

Your suggestion of being around or talking with SOCO etc when looking at a crime is interesting and fair enough but doenst have anything to do with whether its legal or not to carry picks on you in the uk.

The only way it will be sorted is if someone did do what you suggested not to do and thats go to the book keeper and ask for all the referances in the books of law, youll get a lot of meaningless generic answers that officers can interpret to mean whatever they need them to but as for actual lockpicks on your person in a street referances i have been told there arent any.

As i said a page or so ago its down to whether the officer at the time thinks theres just cause or such like.

Im sorry to say weve heard it before and we say the same thing to each of them, sorry if you choose to leave, were not going to get the violins out and beg you to stay, its your choice if you do or not, its always nice if people hang around and join in this hobby picking and theres a lot of members who do but if you decide to go then i hope things go ok for you.
Your desicion, see ya.

[illusion]

Why are you slating me ,that is obviously an insult to me .

I questioned your post.... There was no malice in my post. The first part simply showed the diversity of objects that can be used as picks, and hence the diffculty somebody could have in pinning something on you. Sorry if that seems in any way of a targetted and vicious post, but it wasn't.

Youre older than me

I doubt that's true...

I was shown to respect elders no matter what

I do... Age is irrelevant on this site however, and respect is not granted, but earnt through helping others. I question the relevance of this in the current debate however - unless I'm missing something.

Remember Shrub & Confusion its not what you know but who.

Of course - but if you agree with this, then this automaticaly contradicts you previous statement about good guys being innocent. If having contacts can change the outcome of a search or arrest, then surely it could change a 'bad guy' into a 'good guy' as far as the law is concerned.

I could care less if you left the site... I find you posts to be patronising, and far from polite.

[sidpick]

I work with the police quite alot, as this thread is going down hill rapidly I can quite confidently say that lockpicks are not illegal items, they certainly wont be returned if confiscated and will be most likely frowned upon.
Certain items, by law cannot be returned like guns, explosives, weapons stolen currency and these types of tools.

You could be carrying a big bunch of keys and get nicked (the example given is socks (used as gloves - but not quite as obvious), a bunch of keys and a big fat screwdriver) - no signs of lockpicks!!

You need 'intent' and 'intent' is difficult for others to prove as its in your head - basically 'intent to commit burglary, theft or cheat' thats going equipped, this can be from a coke bottle to a slim jim to a full out 'ultimate locksmith tool kit '

The time of day, location, your previous and the local problems (ie : burglarys with no apparent signs of forced entry) will drop you deeper in the cack.

A legitamate fella going about his business - locksmith or not with a set of picks in his pocket may well be questioned about why he's carrying them. Then its down to the individual copper.

I do suggest you do not refuse a search, this often does not work in your favour.

Regarding the above the police can search anyone - but need grounds. Be polite but if the coppers giving you grief and does not explain why he's searching you bite your tongue and go with it.

I'll explain.. before all the police haters out there get on my case..

Your legal entitlement to a copy of the search record (form 5090) after search explains all police powers, you can get these straight after search or pick up from a local nick (ask the copper what station he works at), they keep them for a year. Its not often practical to fill out a form on the road side. The copper should give you something called GOWISELY - which is grounds, object of the search, show ID if plain clothes, station to which attatched, entitlement to copy of the search record, which legal power used to stop and search etc.... its basically why your being searched.

BUT

Sometimes with certain exemptions no grounds need to be given - this is called a section 60, these are set up if there is a big problem in an area and only last for designated time spans

If you feel like you've been unfairly treated or unlawfully searched then go to the police station and report it to the duty inspector.

Its highly unlikely that you will ever be searched, if your young, with a group of youths in a park with a set of picks, then I personally think reasonable grounds exist to push it a little further to see why you've got them.

So don't be too woried about carrying them. You'll be in far more trouble carrying a leatherman or gerber tool - which is an offensive weapon - then a set of picks..

go onto any police website and all the search information is freely available. Don't bother going into a police station, You'll be in for a long wait normally!! and you'll get the same advice!

Embrace lockpicking for what it is! we all know why we do it, for job, enjoyment, satisfaction of solving a puzzle and just plain showing off to mates .

Not everyone knows what a lockpick is or what they look like, but you mention the word lockpick and everyones ears spring up and think of catburglars and safe crackers and 'rogues' - we know were not -

Keep up the good work all of us! and lets get back to picking!!!!!!!!!!

you might find yourself down the nick showing the old bill how to pick locks...and the cell doors don't have keyholes on the inside of the door!

[Shrub]

And with that i feel this thread needs to be locked.

When you moving sidpick?

[sidpick]

soon as I can mate!! anywhere is better than here!! oh the grass is always greener on the other side!

[Shrub]

Well best of luck and hope you still come by.

[SEVEN]

Never met police yet that would not recognize a lockpick.If he has legit reason to stop and search,anything from a plastic bag to a sharp object ,can lead to arrest for going equiped.It would not lead to court but loss of picks more than probable.