bypassing a proximity reader to open a door

[george728]

hey guys a have a ? i'm in the security business cctv but was thinking of
installing proximity readers for my clients.

How Safe are they "i mean bypass-pick" proof


thanks

george

[Romstar]

Most of them are pretty good, but like anything it depends on the system you use.

Would they be card, or token systems? RFID, resonance, challenge/answer or what? Of all of them, the challenge/answer systems are probably the best. They work on a good encryption system, are RF based, and the codes are non-fixed.

Like anything else though, they can be bypassed, but not without some special equipment, and a good deal of understanding.

The next best is programmable RFID. Each token has a unique ID, and is programmed into the system so the door only responds to a set number of codes. However, you can brute force this system more easily.

Resonance systems are possibly the easiest systems to bypass as the tokens respond to a signal from the proximity reader. Basically it just bounces the signal back, and when the receiver gets the resonated signal, it opens.

Card systems are pretty good as they require very close proximity to function, so they are not as easy to bypass from any distance, and they also come in challenege/answer systems as well as RFID. Sort of like a smart card.

Romstar

[kodierer]

Great reply Romstar. You forgot one though. 64, or 128 bit encrypted infared signals are also an option.
Remember that making sure your clients don't allow their access control items such as keys, cards, or anything of that nature to be stolen is very important.

Anything mentioned is an option. What you need really depends on what your securing, how much you are allowed to spend, and possibly on how many people need access in and out on a regular basis.

[Romstar]

Yes, I did leave out IR, but to be honest I think that has something to do with the fact that I don't like IR.

The encryption is always a great idea, but like I said, I really dislike IR.

Just a personal thing I guess.

Romstar

[sphl0ckman]

the other thing to remember is that at some point most of these systems have a key overide or are fail safe(so that someone can get in if the power is out) allowing someone to either cut power or pick the lock every time that I have seen a lock installed with one it has been a standard sc1 keyway which is not very pick resistant. But I don't personally install them I just maintain what others already installed. They seem pretty good but a good high security lock would do at least as well and in my opinion better. The only major advantage is that if a high level key is lost or stolen it can simply be removed from the system instead of a huge rekeying mess.

[Romstar]

Yeah, I do agree that standard key overrides are pretty lame, but recently I am seeing a lot more fail secure than I am fail safe. I am not sure just how this impacts safety codes, but it is a common trend.

At any rate, with some forethought they are very good devices, and can be an excellent part of a high security system.

Romstar

[raimundo]

but on the topic of bypass, isn't it always the simple low tech things that do it like hanging a zip tie over the doorframe so that when the door is opened, the knotbloc is positioned to get trapped in the doorframe and prevent the door from closing that last eighth of an inch to snap the latch into the strike plate, thus leaving the door apearing to be closed, but just a hair short of latching.

[kodierer]

but on the topic of bypass, isn't it always the simple low tech things that do it :shock: like hanging a zip tie over the doorframe so that when the door is opened, the knotbloc is positioned to get trapped in the doorframe and prevent the door from closing that last eighth of an inch to snap the latch into the strike plate, thus leaving the door apearing to be closed, but just a hair short of latching.

Yes it is the simple things that get you in the end. If someone has the means they can decode, and duplicate any method mentioned. However there is almost always some small thing slightly defective in the actual locking mechanism, or possibly an improperly installed door.
I once visited a childrens hospital where the door securing the childrens wing had a simple wafer lock in the wall which turned on, and off an electric magnet which held the door tightly closed, or allowed it to open. Even if that was a high security medeco in the wall some one could drill a hole in the wall to break, an electical circuit. Or place another equally, or strong, or stronger magnet opposite of that door to neutralize the magnet. This wasn't a high security application, just an example of something possibly overlooked.

[CaptB]

One thing i would advise is making sure the units are pretty secure. Most work on low voltage circuits. So if you can open the cover and gain access to the cables they are generally very easy to bypass.