Power Inverters

[dondel05]

Hi All,

I am trying to find out what the average wattage is to power a key machine using an inverter. I have a FB200 duplicator that I would like to run from my van. Does anyone here do this? ANd what wattage do you use? Thanks!

Donald

[jimb]

If all you're going to run is the fb200 you can get by with a small inverter. All my tools are battery operated except my fb200. It's been running for over a year on a Black and Decker 200 watt inverter. I bought it at Walmart and it will hook up to the battery or you can plug it into the cigarette lighter. My van has lighter plugs in the back so mine has always run from there.

[dondel05]

Thanks for the info!

Yes I am using mostly battery powered tools also, I do mostly "Lockouts" but I do occaisionaly want to make keys. I read the suggested tools list on here, which said to use a 2-3000 watt inverter, but it seemed to be overkill for what I want. I am still new to this and on a limited budget.

But the FB200 works for what I need to do. Maybe later I am sure I will get a newer machine. Thanks again for the info.

Donald

[keysman]

If you look at the label on the motor it will say something like 120 volts 3.1 amps

Ohms law come into play here
Volts x amps = watts
so in this case 120volts x 3.1 amps = 372 watts

When using an inverter you should ALWAYS have at least 50% more than you expect as the amps given are taken at run speed/ no load and not start-up amps which can be much higher


So in this case you would need 372 watts + ( 50%) 186 watts = 558 watts or a 550 or 600 watt inverter

Don’t forget you loose a certain amount through the wires and you don’t want to be running your inverter at “ full throttle “ all the time. Additionally you may want to do something else in the future.. like run a light or perhaps a drill so you may want to plan for future expansion .
If you are running you inverter from a cigarette lighter socket .. you are just asking for problems down the road..
BE SAFE:
Pay the small fee and have it wired into your vehicle by a professional.

[dondel05]

Thanks for the info keysman! I looked for such information on the motor and it is not there!? Also I checked the specs sheet in my owners manual and that info was no there either! So I decided to ask someone who was using the same machine and see what they were using.

Your recommemdation about the higher wattage inverter and wiring is very sound, and I plan on following it. Thank You!

Donald

[jimb]

Don’t forget you loose a certain amount through the wires and you don’t want to be running your inverter at “ full throttle “ all the time. If you are running you inverter from a cigarette lighter socket .. you are just asking for problems down the road..

Thanks for the info on volts x amps. What kind of problem do you think I could expect in the future?

I can't see someone running their key machine in their van full throttle all the time. I don't cut keys by code with mine as I have a punch for that and the fb200 is only on to cut a couple of keys at a time. I think 12 keys is the most I've ever cut at one time.

[Lorek]

50% is a good rule of thumb for calculating the surge, there's a way you can physically measure both if its not displayed. There's a plug in that will measure how much electricity an appliance is using that is plugged into it, that's pretty common, there's an uncommon type that will measure how much surge is created when first turning an electrical thing on. If you could find one of those you could figure out how much you'll expect to use.

If your planning on installing an inverter yourself, most car batteries put out 12v or 24v DC. You'll want to put the inverter as close to the battery as possible to avoid voltage drop. For safety you will also want to put a fuse inline between your battery and inverter to prevent a fault. If for some reason a short occurs either during an accident or while your wiring and enough juice is pulled out of the battery it starts releasing releasing heat and hydrogen gas. Explosions can be nasty.

You'll also want to make sure you use the proper gauge wire going to and from your battery. DC runs around 12-24v you can do the math to figure out how much amps the wire will need to be rated for, AC can run the same electricity on thinner cords because the volts are much higher. DC you'll typically need thicker cords.

I * E = Watts where I = Volts and E = Amps

Hope info helps. You can find more detailed information on some RV or Inverter Manufacturer websites. Have fun

[chip]

I use a dual machine from the back of the van.

I bought a 700watt inverter and it didn't even start the machine.

I went for a 2000 watt in the end, at least it has the power to run all of my powertools as well now!

[kg4boj]

You will find motors draw the most current when stalled, if you don't start a motor under load usually it isnt too difficult. I use a vector 1000W inverter, 2000W surge. One thing you have to remember is your alternator is typically a 100 or so amp alternator, that means unless you upgrade it you should only draw 1300 watts from the motor while it is running lest you eventually deplete the battery and (like I learned today) kill the alternator. I had an alternator go bad in my van today.... and thats 200$ for all labor included, and I had it back in 3 hours...
By luck I was able to connect a second battery jump cart using the inverter leads that were run into the van as hookup points, and I made it to my mechanics shop who got it done right away...... Don't count on being so fortunate as I was.

Wires are another issue, if anything you MUST overdo the wiring, make it big and thick, and if possible multiple lengths of the same rating wire, use a good ground, better to have a wire that runs all the way back but whatever you can get, fuse it correctly and if your inverter is soft start, you can use many motored tools that normally wouldnt work with even really large inverters, for example my 1000W inverter was able to run a nearly 10 amp impact wreanch no problems, the good inverters have modified sine wave at best and some have square wave... witch you should aviod, be awarre though, with inverters you want as heavy as you can afford, the heavier it is the more heat sink etc.

Also its easier to run a short length of 12V wire and a long length of 120V wire, but the way my setup was I used the largest welding wire I could get a hold of (rated for the wattage and current I was using at those lengths) and ran it to the back of the van, keep in mind extension cord resistance can add up too. A good idea if you run the cable like I did mine is to add a loop at every place the chassis flexes and hold the loop in shape with cable ties, run them on the inside of the frame rails and you will be ok..

if you really need pure AC (modified sine wave will make motors sound funny and interfere with some very sensitive equipment) the best solution that locksmiths have used for many a year is a motor generator set, witch uses a 12V motor to drive a 120V generator effectivly making very pure AC.

[Servalite6354]

I * E = Watts where I = Volts and E = Amps

Slight error here.

Just for clarification, "I" is the standard letter used for current (amps), and "E" is the used to denote a voltage source.

So, it's really

I * E = Watts where I = Amps and E = Volts (of the source)

In this case it really doesn't make a difference, since volts*amps = amps*volts, but I just thought I'd clarify that.

You can also use the equation

Watts = I*I*R, if you know the current and the resistance of the load.
or
Watts = (V*V)/R, if you know the voltage and the resistance of the load.

These equations aren't completely accurate, but are good enough to estimate your power requirements.

Also, these equation assume DC voltage and a purely resistive load, which is an ok assumption to make when you're plugged into a cigarette lighter on a 12V DC automobile, but it gets a bit more complex when you're talking about "wall voltage" of 120 V AC. The complexities arise when AC voltages are present with loads that aren't purely resistive (i.e. the load has some capacitive or inductive part, which a motor does) Again, doesn't make much difference here, but just for the sake of accuracy and completeness, I thought I'd add it.

[gotta]

My last van had a PowerStar UPG1300. The 1300 watts easily ran my HPC code machine and an Ilco 025 duplicator once I got rid of the capacitor start motor. I used a dedicated battery with an isolator and a high output alternator. It was nice using a smaller microwave in the winter for those cold days out of town.... With cable the size of your thumbs, the connections had to be absolute and checked often.

[thewizardofal]

Ive got a FB200 I used to set up at a flea market last summer . The market had no power is why I used it. I could power my cutter for two days up to 50or so keys a day.I used a Band D 200watt, and a small battery from a jump starter. I would charge the battery 45 minutes during the week and cutt a while. the cutter uses .9 amps,on the 120v motor.the inverter supplys 1.67amps or so it works well I dont kill my van battery or alt.

[carloski]

dont forget u may want more power for a light aswell