A couple of basic business questions about locksmithing

[Swampy459]

Hi,

I'm looking into the Foley Belsaw course, and locksmithing as a possible career.

I have a couple of questions about locksmithing in general.

I repossessed cars professionally for about 4 years right after college. That was years ago. I have a LOT of experience with automotive lockouts. We sometimes had keys from codes, but not always. I know that if you open a car, there is a pretty good chance that after you open the vehicle something might not end up the same as before. For example, if you wedge the door and frame and reach in with a manipulation rod, the weatherstripping might be damaged. A slim jim or lifting wire might dislodge a clip somewhere in the door, or scratch window tint.

How do you handle customers and minor, but inherent to forced entry, damage like that? do you explain that "well your door might leak after I do this... sign this waiver" or do you just have insurance and let them battle it out with the insurance company after?

The other question I have is ... how do you handle lockouts on electronic keypad locks? are those becoming more prevalent? Do you think pin tumbler locks might go extinct?

Thanks,

Chad

[globallockytoo]

Dont worry about pin tumbler locks or other mechanical locking devices going extinct. There will always be a need for a mechanical solution in my opinion. Electronic keypad locks may indeed be all the rage today, but face it. The quality is not yet at the level that it can be reliably relied upon, unlike mechanical products. The cost for electronic keypad products is constantly coming down, however you see that many also incorporate a mechanical component too.

I suggest that mechanical keys will be around for a significant time yet, but transponders (like in automobiles) will find more traction in the residential and commercial marketplace. I suggest that the physical key control products like restricted key systems will continue to evolve and the days of everyday key cutting will diminish due to the transponder technologies being incorporated into mainstream locking systems.

As far as the FB course.....many here know my opinion on that excuse for a learning program. If you want to be a handyman, intent on stuffing peoples locks, then perhaps FB is for you!

[Swampy459]

If you want to be a handyman, intent on stuffing peoples locks, then perhaps FB is for you!

OK, for those of us who cannot walk away from a full time job to do apprentice work for minimum wage, what course is better than FB?

Chad


PS - sorry, I do have another embarrassing question. Perhaps it is that I don't know locksmith lingo, or it may just be a colloquialism - but I don't know what 'stuffing a lock' means. Can you elaborate or explain?

[BigRob40]

I think in regards to possible damage in the course of performing lockouts a waiver of responsibility would only cover the locksmith as long as he isnt " negligent" when performing those duties. Some customers have a reasonable expectation of the possible damage that may occur, but MANY do not. I think this is where a locksmiths experience comes into play. You can not imagine how many times Ive seen or heard of a new business biting off more than they could chew and winding up in lawsuit. The only way to prevent this would be to learn all that you can about your chosen field so that when the time comes you are able to handle any situation that may arise or the wisdom to know when you may be in over your head. You wont prevent this from ever happening but youll be prepared for when it does. This is the mark of a true professional.

As far as FB goes I think its a good start for someone interested in becoming a locksmith but what and how you learn is up to you. How you use that knowledge is they key. Running ANY type of small business is alot of work and anyone who does so should know what he or she is getting themselves in to.
With that said I believe theres no substitute for on-hand experience no school, online course, dvd can possible teach you enough for all the possible situations that may arise in the field.

[SALocksmith]

There's way to much to learn, there's no way in hell you can just take the FB course, buy yourself a shiney new van and key machine and call yourself a locksmith. It just does not work that way it takes years just to learn the key blanks. It's a good start, to get your foot in the door, at a shop working for perhaps 10$ an hour, until you got some real experience. If you try to start a business on FB alone you will fail... badly. There's no quick easy solution, you must apprenticeship, and you must work in a shop. You have to do this everyday all day. It takes alot of repetition. This is a skilled trade.

[SALocksmith]

wow, i need to goto bed, it's way to late and i put far to many comma's in the above post, reading it back lol. I can't seem to figure out how the heck to edit post on this forum.

[globallockytoo]

There's way to much to learn, there's no way in hell you can just take the FB course, by yourself a shiney new van and key machine and call yourself a locksmith. it just does not work that way, it takes years just to learn the key blanks. It's a good start, to get your foot in the door, at a shop working for, perhaps 10$ an hour, until you got some real experience. If you try to start a business on FB alone you will fail... badly. There's no quick easy solution, your must apprenticeship, and you must work in a shop. You have to do this everyday all day. It takes alot of repetition. This is a skilled trade.

Very well said.

I purchased my work truck from a guy in Texas who had done the FB course exactly as you said, bought a truck, stocked it, had many tools and machines but couldnt ply the trade without the knowledge and experience that longevity and hands on experience gives you. He tried valiantly for 3 years but failed and sunk more than $20K into it. He was competing with a long time established one man operation that was nearing retirement but had already the name out there and the experience and reputation to boot.

I started in a new town, country with no local knowledge or acquaintances in my region, but I had the benefit of 20+ years experience in other countries/cities. My knowledge of the industry and the ability to adapt to local conditions, provided sufficient foundation to get my startup going.

It can be done, yes. But the amount of advertising you will be required to do to build a name is extensive. I know a guy that has been here 3 years and spends in excess of $600 a day on advertising. That is before the running costs of 3 trucks, employees and inventory. They charge a small fortune (and are not of the honest crop), ripping customers off too often, because their need to make $$$ is huge. They started out charging significantly higher prices and employed unqualified foreigners (middle eastern mostly) and are not building return clients.

Face it. It is the returning loyal customers that allow you to make increased profits because the word of mouth marketing and rapport you have built has already paid off with them.

[allamericanlock]

Ive never damaged anything opening a vehicle, im not saying it will never happen but 99% of the time i just use a air wedge and a reach tool which to me seems the most likely to cause damage if it were to occur. If i did break something i would pay for it because im the pro and should have the correct tools to do the job.

[Varjeal]

Hi,

I'm looking into the Foley Belsaw course, and locksmithing as a possible career.

I have a couple of questions about locksmithing in general.

I repossessed cars professionally for about 4 years right after college. That was years ago. I have a LOT of experience with automotive lockouts. We sometimes had keys from codes, but not always. I know that if you open a car, there is a pretty good chance that after you open the vehicle something might not end up the same as before. For example, if you wedge the door and frame and reach in with a manipulation rod, the weatherstripping might be damaged. A slim jim or lifting wire might dislodge a clip somewhere in the door, or scratch window tint.

How do you handle customers and minor, but inherent to forced entry, damage like that? do you explain that "well your door might leak after I do this... sign this waiver" or do you just have insurance and let them battle it out with the insurance company after?

The other question I have is ... how do you handle lockouts on electronic keypad locks? are those becoming more prevalent? Do you think pin tumbler locks might go extinct?

Thanks,

Chad

First off, most...and I do say most of the time there should not be any damage. Carefully applied techniques in most situations are just as safe as using the proper key in the proper lock. If you suspect that there might be damage either try to find a different technique to apply or give the customer both a verbal and written warning, as well as explain what your technique might do and why you are using it.

This is why skilled people are skilled. They know more than one method of doing something and quite often several that will ultimately accomplish the same goal.

Once warned, its then the customers decision whether they will accept the work or not.

Electronic keypad lockouts are not uncommon. Fortunately, in most places electronic keypads have some sort of key override, and where they don't there is generally other ways of NDE.

Pin tumbler locks will likely not go extinct completely, but they will undergo changes constantly.

[Pandawdy]

Hi,

I'm looking into the Foley Belsaw course, and locksmithing as a possible career.

I have a couple of questions about locksmithing in general.

I repossessed cars professionally for about 4 years right after college. That was years ago. I have a LOT of experience with automotive lockouts. We sometimes had keys from codes, but not always. I know that if you open a car, there is a pretty good chance that after you open the vehicle something might not end up the same as before. For example, if you wedge the door and frame and reach in with a manipulation rod, the weatherstripping might be damaged. A slim jim or lifting wire might dislodge a clip somewhere in the door, or scratch window tint.

How do you handle customers and minor, but inherent to forced entry, damage like that? do you explain that "well your door might leak after I do this... sign this waiver" or do you just have insurance and let them battle it out with the insurance company after?

The other question I have is ... how do you handle lockouts on electronic keypad locks? are those becoming more prevalent? Do you think pin tumbler locks might go extinct?

Thanks,

Chad

I noticed this is an older post, but I would like to repsond:

Concerning electronic keypads, if you are talking about a standard keypad used for access control, it operates with a relay. When the correct code is entered, the relay picks and usually opens one leg of the power on a mag lock, or closes to apply power to a latch, or closes a circuit as an input on an intelligent mag lock. The keypad itself isn't very sophisticated... doesn't take much at all to defeat one.

If you are talking about the keypad locks they sell at hardware stores for home use, I am not 100% certain. Some of them do still have a normal pin tumbler setup so that it can be operated if the battery goes dead, so you could bypass it that way.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Air wedge/Long Reach Tool is probably the safest method, especially if your long reach tool has a rubber coating. The wedge High Tech Tools sells has a check valve, of sorts, that prevents you from pushing the door too far from the rest of the door frame. No chance of scratching the door, frame, weatherstripping with a rubber coated tool, either. Create a gap just big enough for the tool and you'll never go wrong.

I've come to prefer this method. Weatherstripping becomes brittle with age and I don't like forcing a wedge between it and the door and potentially ripping or tearing it. I've also heard horror stories of locksmiths leaving tools in the door cavity and I'm always leary of sticking a tool into something that might potentially have something like that in it. I'll use the Under The Window-style tools on newer Hondas and Slim Jims on Ford Vans/Trucks but everything else gets the Long Reach Tool.

Everyone has their approach but if done right, the Air Wedge/Long Reach Tool will never damage a car if used correctly.