Paranoid/Demented Customers: Can I see your ID?

[Raccoon]

I don't understand why wireless ethernet webcams aren't as popular as they should be for home security. A vast majority of broadband internet services include wireless routers, so homes are already equipped with a wireless infrastructure. With simple motion sensing software, one could easily generate audit logs of anyone who comes and goes, protecting your family and possessions a most profound way.

[nekret]

However, at the same time, these can work against you giving knowledgeable adversaries the capability to scope out the area without actually being captured on camera. Since wireless security is a joke and having the system constantly broadcasting video to a monitoring system would defeat any host based authentication system, it would be very difficult to secure unless you had your own VPN system running on top of the wireless protocol.

[Jaakko]

However, at the same time, these can work against you giving knowledgeable adversaries the capability to scope out the area without actually being captured on camera. Since wireless security is a joke and having the system constantly broadcasting video to a monitoring system would defeat any host based authentication system, it would be very difficult to secure unless you had your own VPN system running on top of the wireless protocol.

That is only true if the encryption is WEP or nada. WPA or WPA2 uses AES as the encryption protocol and can't be defeated unless you try all the possible passwords for the network.

So there is no risk at building a wireless monitoring system for your home. The cameras scare away thiefs, but the price tag of the camera itelf scares away you Usually I have seen those cameras retail a 200 euros a pop (no webcam "quality").

[nekret]

Actually, many users of WPA/2 use TKIP which allow for offline brute force attacks. It's a great deal better than wep but when I think of how many spare cpu cycles I have available at work and at school, a brute force system doesn't look that bad.

[Jaakko]

Actually, many users of WPA/2 use TKIP which allow for offline brute force attacks.

Yeah, per packet. TKIP uses different encryption for each and every packet sent, so decrypting one doesn't help a bit.

It's a great deal better than wep but when I think of how many spare cpu cycles I have available at work and at school, a brute force system doesn't look that bad.

128/256 bit AES is not breakable using human resources at the moment. Trying a few billion common passwords is indeed possible no matter what the cipher is or how long. The problem is that if someone has the intelligence to install a WiFi based camera monitoring system and secure it, I think they have the knowledge not to use short or easy passwords

[nekret]

OK, so maybe brute forcing a small stream of packets might be a little overkill just to obtain a shot of the grounds. However, being the devil's advocate that I am, wireless is inherently vulnerable to denial of service through some rather interesting de-authentication tricks (assuming you could do it fast enough to keep the camera off the network) or just pumping enough signal noise to thwart any decent packet flow. In any case, a wired cam (ethernet, cctv, etc) provides the same security advantage without the possibility of leaking information to remote observers or the chance of being remotely disabled (assuming decent shielding).

[Raccoon]

WAY off topic. But in any event, no home-brewed criminal mastermind is going to sit around someone's front porch and hack into their wireless webcams to find areas that are not in the field of view.

Additionally, these (any decent) wireless cameras themselves act as host servers, with secure login and locally stored video. So even if you manage to connect to one, you're not going to be accessing or interrupting the audit logs.

Best bring a can of black spraypaint.

[Jryanruch]

I've always been curious about monitoring -- so you can watch them break into your place all the way from Hawaii... great. What do customers see as the benefit? Burglar Identification?

[desert_gold_hound]

I've always been curious about monitoring -- so you can watch them break into your place all the way from Hawaii... great. What do customers see as the benefit? Burglar Identification?

Well stated.....

I think the idea of being able to monitor your house is a good one. Though with every new technology there are flaws. Having this a good hacker/cracker can also gain access to your home for viewing purposes. This helping them case out the joint before the robbery. It also gives them access to shut the protection down. There are many of these hackers who no very little about computers other then how to do good searches and the ability to use the software they find. They don't have to know how to crack the systems there is already free software out there to do this for them. Just do a search and you will find it’s all over. So with the good comes the bad.

I love the fact I can watch my place remotely. You can check on baby sitters, check your animals, watch a thief brake into your place yada yada yada. So there is good and bad with everything. Any new device you add to a security system also adds bugs this is both for mechanical and electronic systems. The question is how many thief’s will take the time to find them. Theft is for the most part performed by amateurs not professionals.

[Afisch]

I think that people are seeing too many ways round webcam style security. Many of the people here are technilogicaly minded. I would feel though that seeing any sort of CCTV would scare most burgelers away. If anyone is going to camp outside my house for weeks planning a full scale heist then sure theyl rob me blind and to a point (contraversy) deserve it...well morso anyway. This security is in my opinion a very good idea and gives peice of mind as well as security and deterent. If i had more money maybe i would...

[desert_gold_hound]

This is in a round about way clinging on to my statement yet expanding it.

Most thief’s aren’t professional.

They are usually your drug induced, un educated, and outright un-classy folks. Yes it adds more bugs, however; even a professional thief that sees secured windows, good locks, alarm system, video surveillance, and good police patrol (you can enforce them to patrol your neighborhood better), are going to go to the next house. So yes the more security you have then the more bugs you are adding, yet; you are also getting rid of 99% of would be thief’s.

These systems can be installed for as little as $200.00 for full house protection by the do it yourselfer. I installed one in my old 3 br 2bth house for less then 100 one time by using cheap webcams.

On another note how did this get soooooo very far off topic? I know I am also contributing to the off topic subject but lets end this or start another thread so that others can get a better search if they are searching for the information.

[Raccoon]

Burglar Identification?

[Raccoon]

Burglar Identification?

Why, yes. That is infact the primary purpose for video monitoring. If you can identify a criminal who robs you, you can not only get your stuff back, get them put into prison so they don't do it again... but you can also save xy% on your insurance premiums and deductibles.

Ideally, CCTV should pay for itself if you have decent home owner's insurance.

[nekret]

Sorry for getting so off topic but yes, surveillance systems are a great resource to identify burglars, their methods, and points of entry. They can also be invaluable in identifying thieves that may actually have authorized access to the area (not so much a problem for homes as for businesses). In fact sometimes, if you're lucky, you might catch someone casing the place before the robbery and be waiting for them when they decide to make their move.

[Shrub]

I dont even know where to edit this thread, its either removed or wont make sence,

Im tempted to leave it for now if im promised that no more bypassing is discussed,

Survalence systems and all that goes with them ie alarms etc are NBOT for open discussion and any further mention in this thread will see it removed,

Lets keep on the original intended subject please,