hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

[kdlocks]

I grab the keys as soon as I open the car but I always wonder what I'd do if they try to wrestle them away. Generally speaking if someone acts like they aren't gonna pay I try to explain that this is my job and my family depends on the cash. I never get confrontational it is pointless, I just keep my cool and work something out. If I can't work something out then worst case senario I just leave (car or house open). It is really not worth getting into a fist fight over and still not getting any money and maybe going to jail.

Like most problems though I think the best action is trying to avoid this problem altogether. Most of the people that pull this crap are going to sound kind of shady when you talk to them on the phone, so I avoid them.

[prag]

Hi there. I actually asked a old locksmith friend a similar question. His answer was similar to the replies given in the previous posts but he added that it begins when the initial call is received.

It all boils down to posturing ie "will you be paying by cash or cheque?" etc Be in control of the situation at all times but not bosy.

Recently I was call out and I stated that my call out fee was X and there was no problem come pay time.

Also you must be able to think on your feet eg. the person I did a job for said that he didn't have cash/cheque book on him, I replied that there's an ATM near by and I can drive him there.

There will always be sharks out in any industry, we just have to be careful.

Good luck with your business

[globallockytoo]

Many of the suggestions here are for small jobs by one-off clients and such (small stuff).

What about larger clients who require 30 day accounts? or those who refuse to pay until 60 or 90 days?

You can have all the policies you want...but you cant get blood from a stone.

Those clients who wont pay for the bigger jobs until their billing cycle, makes running a business so difficult.

You compete with other companies on price to get jobs...then the client screws you over by not paying till 90 or 120 days.....being in business sometimes really sux.

The only way to make up for that kind of BS is to charge every client significantly more. Somebody has to pay!

(rant off!)

[prag]

globallockytoo

What about larger clients who require 30 day accounts? or those who refuse to pay until 60 or 90 days?

I could not agree with you more. I have a few clients like this and both big corporation ie one is an old age home holding company( own many old age homes) and the other own multiple malls. Hell when I got the jobs I was over the moon and gave these guys first priority.

Only to find out that when it comes to paying time I have to wait till the next full moon or the following. What they don't realize is that the cost of the raw material is carried by us and in most cases is paid for c.o.d

We can't really charge the normal clients extra because they will just go someplace else. What I planning to do is to make it clear that work will only be carried out if payment is made immediately after completion or interest will be factored in.

[globallockytoo]

. What I planning to do is to make it clear that work will only be carried out if payment is made immediately after completion or interest will be factored in.

All well and good unless they still dont pay.

Wal-Mart in the USA have a reputation for only paying what they feel...not the invoice total....and only on their terms....sometimes in excess of 120 days.

They are such a huge company that they influence prices by their buying power. If you want the work....you will cut your throat to get it....they feed on this.....they will always find another sucker to bleed dry.

Stand your ground and you potentially take bread out of your childrens mouths.

If you do state terms that include interest.....you have to make sure the rules are enforced...because it is all hollow fluff otherwise.

Many companies refuse to even entertain the idea of looking at a bill till at least 90 days.
In situations like a retirement home....you have rules and laws that you need to abide by...set by government authorities....whereby you cannot refuse to hand over keys or remove hardware from doors....because more often that hardware becomes a functional part of the door and it's operation.....your job is not deemed to be completed and payable until you hand over all parts and keys to the client.

Similarly, in small jobs for one off customers.....legally you cannot take money from the client prior to handing over the keys otherwise you havent fulfilled your part of the bargain.

Life is a double edged sword.

[chev49]

I explain the costs up front, ahead of time - when the person calls me. Second when I get there, I make them sign a work order after verifing their id. Then they are responsible for payment even if they dont pay. the collection agency handles the problems. For commercial accounts, I simply bill them. I have had very little trouble with commercial accts over the past 30 or so yrs. So be nice, prepare the client ahead of time, and bring your legal paperwork. Rick

[yoyoboy]

My teacher told us that he stopped doing work for Victoria's Secret because they were always late on their payments. This is despite have the horrible task of changing mortise cylinders in Hercules doors (those one piece glass doors with a small metal panel and mortise cylinder, with set screw coming out of the bottom of the door.) working on them is a , and requires getting on the ground with a mirror to find the set screw...

[dev070]

I it really interesting to see just how much there is to learn about locksmithing that doesn't have anything to do with touching a lock.

[globallockytoo]

My teacher told us that he stopped doing work for Victoria's Secret because they were always late on their payments. This is despite have the horrible task of changing mortise cylinders in Hercules doors (those one piece glass doors with a small metal panel and mortise cylinder, with set screw coming out of the bottom of the door.) working on them is a <censored>, and requires getting on the ground with a mirror to find the set screw...

Many of those doors have allen bolts holding the lock to the aluminum cross beam. Rarely the need to remove the door or climb under with a mirror. That is why they invented IC (one reason).

I'll bet it was a real PIA to work in a Victoria's Secret store

[hillbilly21]

This really dosn't have anything to with lock picking but its funny and made me think of it when i read all these. I work at a truck accesories and my boss has a really nice kick dodge truck. lifted ten inches top of the line tires, rims, turbos, chips, you name hes got. but he had to run down to little rock and he blew out a turbo. so he called his buddy to drive down to trailor it home, but it was a two or three hour drive, and he was broke down in the "wrong" part of town. he went to sleep and woke up when truck pulled in behind him. he seen two guys get out talk a little one went back in the truck and the other started walking towards the truck. My boss is about five foot seven in. tall and skinny, he also was a navy seal and after that a drill sargent, and now hes a precher, and has is card to carry a conciled weapon. so when the guy waked up to his truck, and scared the guy walking up cause he thought nobody was in there. The guy told him to get out of the truck, and my boss pulled a 357 mag. out a put it to the guys nose and calmly asked are you ready to meet , and the two guys haulde but throught the meadin.

Maybe its just me cause i know my boss and thats why i think its so funny, but maybe someone else will get a kick out of it .

[mkultra23]

You left out the part of the story where he used the mirror to look up the skirts of the lingerie purchasing patrons. And it's a Hercular door not Hercules. But yeah, our sensei is fond of that story Victoria's Secret story. Back to the original topic... I vote for vicious beatings. If that fails fill the locks with epoxy... Just kidding of course, if the amount is not worth suing them over just forget about it, and if the customer comes back refuse any additional service until you are paid in full for the previous job and in advance for any following work. Then make sure you get a signed work order everytime for every future customer. I have a customer who did this to me recently on a $175 job. This guy is a stock market millionaire and he's too cheap to pay his bills...really pisses me off!!!!

[mkultra23]

Shirt, I've been working on MTL too much. I meant Herculite not hercular or hercules even.

[Engineer]

I have designed a form you can use as your bill/recipt, but I have put sections in it for all the info you might want to take from a client, to help ensure you reduce the chances of someone not paying. I hope I have accomodated all the points in this thread? I have put the form in it's own post, see:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=43312&start=0

If you can think of any improvements or suggestions, I would be pleased to hear of them.

[PGHAutoLocks]

If you are dealing with a client who is outright refusing to pay then you might want to look into filing theft of services charges (on calls without any products sold such as lockpicking only) and/or retail theft charges (when the "sale" of any product or material such as a lockset or key is involved)!

[PGHAutoLocks]

However, if looking to prevent slow paying customers you might consider placing terms on your invoice that allow for a large discount for immediate payment (such as 25%), then perhaps a discount of 15% for payment within 15 days, net payment due in 30 days and a late fee and the highest interest rate allowable by law for all payments recieved beyond 30 days after service. Use your normal rate as the rate established for immediate payment (the one with the 25% "discount") and adjust the other rates from there. For example, if you would charge a "normal" service charge of $100, the customer's price if paid immediately would be $100. However, if they don't pay when service are rendered and take 1-15 days to pay, then their actual price becomes $117.65 ($100/0.85). If they pay between day 16 and day 30 after service then their actual price becomes $133.33 ($100/0.75). Provide for a late-payment fee that is the maximum allowable by law and the highest monthly interest charge for all bills paid more than 30 days after service and a provision for collection costs and attorney fees.

Adust your rate schedule to reflect the net (30-day pay) pricing by dividing your current rate by 0.75 to determine you new rate schedule then bill all calls at your new rates. Customers paying at the time of service are actually paying your old (existing) rates. However, your slow-paying are now pay for the privelidge! Quote your existing rates as your "discounted immediate cash payment rate" to remain price competitive. You'll be surprised how many slow-payers will begin paying at the time of service. If not, it's worth the wait!