Customers Who Do It Themselves and FAIL

by **ldnlksmth** » 2 Jan 2007 15:02

Sounds like the matrix I use for a 'hold and vary' system. For each variable position, each usable number (I typically use a two-step setup) is put in. Then it's just a matter of progressing the numbers, eliminating the MACS and assigning the bittings numbers.

TMK: 53731

Hold chambers 1 and 2, vary chambers 3,4,5

5 1 3
7 5 5
9 7 7
X 9 9
Then progressing then numbers, you start each bitting with 53, then just run the numbers: 513, 515, 517, 519, 713, 715, 717, 719 etc. Once progressed, eliminate MACS bittings and you're rocking.

by **esl_cherokee** » 2 Jan 2007 17:45

So far the worst I have seen was a guy trying to use his hockey stick to pry the door and a coat hanger to hit the button. The only vehicle that has given me a little problem was a jeep wrangler hard top because of the straight up door so I fished the key's out on that one. Wish I have been here long enough for the advanced forum's I would probably learn some thing's to make my job easier....lol.

by **ldnlksmth** » 3 Jan 2007 14:00

"advanced' is all a matter of opinion.

I don't know about the US, but in Canada, if you're a tradesman and can prove it, you can write off any training related to the trade. Get your boss to sign the form from the g'ment, or if you work for yourself, have the company pay for it your accountant can write it off. Owning a business has been the only way I could afford my training: The company is currently paying for a business management course, marketing courses and I'm going to be doing a CCTV installer's program in the spring.

by **esl_cherokee** » 3 Jan 2007 22:43

I guess I can prove that I am a tradesman with my contract with the company I am working for? I am a sub-contractor but that should not matter right? Sound's like you are getting your self alot of training which is a good thing. The cctv is something else that I would like to learn. Not sure if you read but I am working for a company called auto rescue. The funny part was there training whcih was basicly non existant. Good thing the tool's came with the book's even though most is air bag and long reach or noose. There are still some that I need to go to the book for.

by **ldnlksmth** » 4 Jan 2007 23:49

here, you have to prove that it's relevant to your feild. If your company (contract in this case) doesn't require you to know how to do something, you probably can't write it off.

The flip side of that is that you can probably get yourself a contract with a locksmith service and do their auto lockouts. Once that's in place, you could probably justify taking some door lock courses to be able to further fill your contract of performing lockout work, and then go from there.

by **New-York-Locksmith** » 8 Jan 2007 11:46

a locksmith education never seems to end - there's always something new out there - not to mention having to keep up with technology...

by **ldnlksmth** » 10 Jan 2007 19:45

keeping up with technology can be in and of itself a fulltime job. Focus on one area of the trade and stick with it. I know an automotive guy that doesn't even advertise anymore because every locksmith in our city of 400,000 refers auto work to him. I worked for a company that turns down anything not commercial work (they do doors, locks, hardware and everything in between, but never residential or automotive.

You can't do everything. Find a niche and share it with your collegues.

by **New-York-Locksmith** » 28 Jan 2007 6:43

I think ldnlksmth has a point. I guess this practice is about to change drastically - much like the computer business that splits into million types of different jobs - in the future, maybe, each locksmith would have a very specific field of expertise and would practice that field only. maybe not. what do you think?

by **Wreckmaster** » 28 Jan 2007 23:22

Back to the origional subject matter of this thread.

Auto lockouts, I have done like a ga-billion of em. I really don't know how many cars I have opened. But being attached to various motor clubs through the years, I have seen some whoppers.

I got called out to open the doors on soft top jeeps. Once I wcale to open a convertible, yes the top was down. I unlocked one young ladys car on a campus over 15 times before she bought a spare key. Many times I have seen various forgien objects sticking out of cars as the do-it-yourselfer tries it. Once I did a car that the lock was messed up, I had a difficult time with it (I was fairly new to the buisness then), I gained entry by setting the woman down into her car through the sunroof. Many times I have arrived on scene and checked all four doors and found one of the back doors unlocked.

Just the other day. I went to a donut shop on my way home. I did not even hve the truck parked and a little old lady is flagging me down requesting help. Her key was so warn down that it refused to function. As I was attempting entry, someone approched me and said "if you call the police, they can open that, because they know how to do that" My wrecker is parked on the other side of the lot, and this person assumes I did not know what I was doing. I looked at them and used a phrase I have used for years when a "stupid" person suggests something to me; "I wll take that under advisement". I then opened the car very quickly, the suggestive person then says "You musta been lucky, that should have been harder than that". After I walked back to my truck and put my tools away, the suggester refused to look at me.

When I arrive on scene and see evidence that the owner has attempted entry, I will not touch the car without them signing a waiver. And then I will try to gain entry through meens other than they did (a different door, different style, etc..) Like the example of the pipe and dry cleaners worth of hangers sticking out the door and jamming up the lock buttons. The vehicle mentioned is easy to open inside the door pannel. One thing I have learned in this field is mistakes happen, so make sure you have passed on as much liability as possable. Do not give someone a chance to sue you for something that you did not do.

I would have sworn that there was something else I wanted to say on this, but I just finished a sneezing fit, and it cleared my mind. I hate it when that happens.

by **Wreckmaster** » 28 Jan 2007 23:32

Dang it, I just remembered.

Preforming the lockout and they try to stiff ya. This happened to me once, I repeat once. Now, if I have any doubt they will try to not pay, as soon as I unlock the car, I reach in and grab the keys. I will then hand the keys to the customer when I have recieved payment. I have had a few claim that they had no cash and that they were not going to pay. I asked them if they were sure. When I recieved conformation, I relocked the door, tossed the keys on the seat, and shut the door. The ones that had money payed me to re-open the car. The ones that had no cash.... I would get back in my truck and I left 'em there. Of course at times of extreme doubt, I would collect before opening. I do not know about the legalities involved here, but I am afraid to find out. I have always refused to open a car at a bar. I will make a good show of trying, and then tell them I will tow them home to their spare key for a little more than the unlock, but cheaper than a regular tow. I hate the idea that I just enabled a drunk to get behind the wheel. Not that I am scared of what they would do to themselves, but to others.

Does anyone else refuse to open at a bar?

by **pauly003** » 29 Jan 2007 11:44

I am just a hobbiest, and not a professional, but it certainley seems like a good practice. You would lose a bit of business, seeing as drunkards probably lose/forget/lockout their keys frequently. However i think you would be taking the moral highgroung in refusing that kind of work.

by **pauly003** » 29 Jan 2007 17:12

that should read "moral high ground" :roll:

by **ldnlksmth** » 29 Jan 2007 23:14

I've done that before too... Refused to open a door when I think someone's been drinking. i've gone as far as to give them a ride home and open it the next day for them (I dont have a tow truck), and I agree that it's the moral high ground. I don't know about in the US, but here if you do anything to assist in a criminal matter (such as being in care or control of a vehicle while impaired) you are guilty of the crime as if you did it (maybe not quite as severe as that, but pretty close). Same way if you open a house for someone who doesn't live there.

i had one guy call me for a lockout: Car was open when I got there but the key wouldn't fit into the ignition... it was a GM: Door key and ignition key. He was a young guy (about 17) with mom and dad's car for the first time (I knew mom and dad, so I didn't worry about the car being stolen), and he just didn't know that the second key was for the ignition. I patted him on the head and sent him home to some warm milk and some car magazines.

by **dab** » 30 Jan 2007 21:46

Had a guy who hired a hack job to open his honda, disconnected his outside door lock AND handle linkage. So this guy goes to auto zone and buys a slime jim and proceeds to disconect his inside handle.
Usually it's good when customers mess up, makes for a few extra dollars, but I won't touch something that I'm not 100% sure I can repair/have spare parts.

by **whiteknight38** » 31 Jan 2007 11:14

The rule for auto lockouts is ALWAYS ask if someone else has tried opening the door, (customer, cop, tow truck guy, or another locksmith)
and mention that when you hand in your receipt.

Always work on a different door than the one they tried. Passenger doors are usually best, as the amateurs usually go for the driver's side, intuitively, and because it's away from traffic.
(Passenger doors also have less sensitive electronics to mess up.)
Checking lock function after work isn't a bad rule either.
Watch out here for DELIBERATE con jobs!
I'v only had one customer customer try to con me.
Got a call saying, "Hey, the door lock wont' work now. What about it?"
I figured it was a con, (the doorlock broke, a solenoid burnt out, whaterver, so she called a locksmith to sue about it.) So I bluffed her accordingly...
I said take the car to the dealer. I won't accept just any garage guy, it has to be an authorized dealer.
If the mechanic writes a note, that the malfunction appears likely to have been caused by an entry tool inserted in the door cavity, I will pay the repair bill.
I never heard from her again.

Customers Who Do It Themselves and FAIL

a locksmith education.....

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