Keyless Locks And The Future?

[Bud Wiser]

Please excuse me if this is not the most appropriate forum for this topic. I will be very careful NOT to discuss advanced topics pertaining to bypassing security systems or keyless locks, so please just read it first.

As a former security consultant I've always been intrigued with high end security and locks. I recently got in to picking locks and locksmithing because I find that just as interesting and entertaining.

We all know about all the major flaws in conventional mechanical locks, even the high security models. They can all be picked or bypassed one way or another. We also know that the lock industry continues to strive to make better and better locks, but I wonder how long before mechanical locks become obsolete in favor of newer and better keyless electronic locks?

I would suggest to our younger lockies to get better acquainted with this new technology as it is inevitably going to be very mainstream at some point. Where will this take the locksmith?

There will always be a way to hack a lock. Hacking is also a art. So even if locks are computerized, there will be hacks and bypasses!

I can see a time when key locks will only be found in museum displays. Granted not any time soon, but still coming. We see some of it now, but the best stuff is still very much out of the reach of most consumers.

Computer hackers will have the advantage, so will high end security specialists that already work with electronics and computerized locks and security systems. The whole home can be computerized even now if you have the bucks! Every thing! The locks, the security system, the lights, heat, air conditioning, all tied in to one computer that can even send phone calls or IM alerts. This is the wave of the future!

I wonder how many other people are thinking about this. At age 50 I'm not too concerned with loosing the edge in my life time, but if I was just starting out, 18, 21, etc, I would want to keep up with every latest technology break thru that comes along. You need to be acquainted with computers, and electronics!

With out giving away details, I can assure you that most high end security systems currently on the market can be easily bypassed if you have the knowledge and equipment.

I suppose when all this becomes mainstream, the work of lock outs, malfunctions, even virus attacks to home security will rest entirely on computer programmers, and hackers. There is no reason why lockies can not begin learning as much as they can too.

What do you think?

[globallockytoo]

You make some good points.

IMHO....modern day electronics need to be combined with modern day advanced mechanics...to enjoy the fruits of modern security.

Already companies like Assa-Abloy are producing a marriage of convenience between the two technologies with CLIQ...

The locksmith trade is forever evolving and there will always be a need for locksmiths.

If there was no crime....people would still wish to lock their doors for privacy. This is why the locksmith will always have a job.

As for computer programmers being required for lockouts....i really dont think so...as most computer programmers (IMHO) cant work with their hands too well (mechanically)....but locksmiths who learn computer programming will be at a definite advantage.

Even high-end security systems can be bypassed because nothing is absolutely failsafe. Even the most secure vault wont stand up to a thermal lance attack.

[Varjeal]

You are indeed correct. As with most trades, if you don't continue your education, you end up falling by the wayside and phased out.

Locksmithing is important in that the changes are coming very quickly, and with the internet the way it is sometimes lockies get outdone by their customers asking about products they are not aware of, which makes it extremely important for us as a trade to keep up at least with recognition of what is out there.

[VashTSPD]

As for computer programmers being required for lockouts....i really dont think so...as most computer programmers (IMHO) cant work with their hands too well (mechanically)

huh? a lot of people are interested in hacking and programming for the same reason that they are interrested in lockpicking. That's why they have a lockpicking competition at DEFCON and HOPE, because people that like to program and hack at stuff also like to lockpick. I've been doing to former for years now, and find lockpicking also fun.


/end vent. sorry.

This thread is very practical, if they can get the keyless lock thing more secure.

[globallockytoo]

As for computer programmers being required for lockouts....i really dont think so...as most computer programmers (IMHO) cant work with their hands too well (mechanically)

huh? a lot of people are interested in hacking and programming for the same reason that they are interrested in lockpicking. That's why they have a lockpicking competition at DEFCON and HOPE, because people that like to program and hack at stuff also like to lockpick. I've been doing to former for years now, and find lockpicking also fun.


/end vent. sorry.

This thread is very practical, if they can get the keyless lock thing more secure.

I agree with you however, the point made in the first post that locksmithing might be a dying trade is IMHO...an incorrect assumprtion.

But, locksmiths who embrace change (as varjeal alluded to) and take up computer applications and learn to combine them with the old trade skills and values, will benefit from and to the modern marketplace. The benefits to consumers will be a more knowledegable and better skilled industry...who are able to provide more services to a more demanding market.

[linty]

i agree that the mechanical lock will lose ground to electronic locks in the forseeable future, but I believe that in many high security or remote situations the mechanical lock will linger for quite some time. I know electronic padlocks exist but I can't really imagine them being superior to a nice abloy protec padlock at our current level of technology.

Also, I believe that until the price of an electronic locking mechanism drops to lower than the cost of a mechanical equivalent, mechanical locks will continue to thrive; the majority of locks out there are not bought with the best possible security in mind.

just a few thoughts

[HeadHunterCEO]

I am always confused when people say locksmithing will be outdated and not needed in the future because of electronic advances.

Who do you think is installing ,servicing and selling these cutting edge systems right now?

no matter how advanced the system gets there is always going to be something physically keeping the door shut

that may be a magnet a strike or whatever

going to need to be installed correctly and serviced when it fails.

windows 3000xp will tell you the door won't secure because the lock is broken but how will it repair it?

Power is unreliable from a hard line security standpoint .
HES is selling a hell of alot more of fail secure strikes than fail safe.

soleniods burn up,power suplies fail,wiring fails

the same safe lock on your great grandads victor safe still works after 100 years

The kaba lcmx on your poorly constructed gardall fire safe just failed after 2 years of minimal use.

mecanical locks aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

The Lockwood deadbolt original to fathers home 50 years ago is still working perfectly and in use

just more reliable

[raimundo]

what electronic device do you own that has worked consistently for more than ten years? in cold and hot and rain and dust? with electronics you also have the possiblity stray voltages, thats why industrial demolitions guy have to go around the sites and look for those stray voltages. When they finally make a reliable electronic lock that will work as long as a mechanical one, it will be for corporations, not average homes.
Who saw the mythbusters program on discovery last night with the fingerprint lock? if you didn't, you might want to see if the internet tells you when that one will be shown again, (discovery channel will probably repeat it again within the week if the show I saw was a first showing.) George Jetson isn't here yet

[Bud Wiser]

what electronic device do you own that has worked consistently for more than ten years? in cold and hot and rain and dust? with electronics you also have the possiblity stray voltages, thats why industrial demolitions guy have to go around the sites and look for those stray voltages. When they finally make a reliable electronic lock that will work as long as a mechanical one, it will be for corporations, not average homes.
Who saw the mythbusters program on discovery last night with the fingerprint lock? if you didn't, you might want to see if the internet tells you when that one will be shown again, (discovery channel will probably repeat it again within the week if the show I saw was a first showing.) George Jetson isn't here yet

I'll have to watch for that special. I hope it wasn't about locks like these that you can get the full manual and specs on pdf files from the web sites!
http://www.adelfingerprintlocks.com/man ... 9-3-AB.pdf
These products are toys, and not really what I was referring too.

Keep in mind that most of the stuff available for consumers is basically junk. Same goes for mechanical too. The best is seriously out of the price range of consumers. And you won't find the detailed specs so easily for really high end stuff

Some one already mentioned one of the main determinators for what it will take for this sort of stuff to be more commercially available and more mainstream is PRICE! Sad but true. I agree, most people just assume any lock is secure and look at the price tag. But as some one else already pointed out, companies like Assa-Abloy are the ones to really watch! By buying out so many companies they are in a position to offer high quality products at very reasonable prices!

Today's locksmith at least here in the US has nothing to worry about any time soon. Even the electrical locks available now for the consumers are childs play compared to what's coming soon. Any locksmith can install and service them. The higher end stuff the lockies will need special training and tools. This will only get more involved as these locks get more sophisticated, and even more training will be involved as they merge with security and central computers. At some point new homes will be built with centralized computers that control the locks, and most every thing in the home. Not really Futurama or Jetson stuff, it's here already for the rich, but very practical!

Imagine being able to go on vacation and still monitor your home from your cellular phone or palm computer. Miniature video cameras inside and out side the home, control temperature, lights, check locks, answering machin, email etc, from a centralized computer. This may sound far fetched to some people, and I agree it is a long way off from being mainstream, at least here in the US, but we will see this on some scale. Now who do you suppose installs all that? A locksmith? Perhaps if one has the proper background on such applications.

[Mememe]

Imagine being able to go on vacation and still monitor your home from your cellular phone or palm computer. Miniature video cameras inside and out side the home, control temperature, lights, check locks, answering machin, email etc, from a centralized computer. This may sound far fetched to some people

The technology to do this has been around for years (X10). A friend of mine linked up his door bell/ intercom to his cell phone so that while he was away at work he could communicate with visitors at his front door. He was also able to control lights/heating/etc remotely.

Another practical use of "remote surveilence" is with Creches/Kindergartens. They are now starting to stream live video to the internet so that parents can see that their children are safe.

With prices of technology coming down all the time, some day soon it will become so commonplace that we will wonder how we did without it.

[linty]

we sell that technology to people all the time and i can't understand why anybody would possibly want it.

[Bud Wiser]

we sell that technology to people all the time and i can't understand why anybody would possibly want it.

Well I can think of a few reasons, but certainly at the present costs it would not be for every one. If the price was more affordable, I think more people would want it.

Remote surveillance is handy if you have service people come to your home regularly and you are not at home that often. Also if you have a very valuable collection of some thing, guns, antiques, etc, you can keep an eye on it, or even show other collectors from your laptop or even hand computer.

Remote security is beneficial to fight against false alarms. Instead of the security system sending the alert directly to the police it can send you the alert by way of text message. You can then check out the situation to determine if a call to the police is needed. In cases when you do not respond in a given amount of time, the system sends another call to the police or monitoring service. False alarms occur more often then actual break ins. It is a major problem for may areas across the country and in some areas security calls are no longer treated as immediate needs. Other states now require a mandatory delay time of up to 15 minutes from the time the alarm goes off to the time the call is sent to combat false alarms.

Computerized locks are useful in case of unauthorized attempts to gain entry. The locks are also tied in to the main security system. If some one attempts to pick, bump, or force a lock the alarm is triggered, and you are also notified instantly.

Centralized tempature control can also be tied in to a fire alarm and also make sure the desired climate is always kept. This could be beneficial if you have exotic plants, or pets.

Lights, cameras, action! Lights turn on, TV comes on, turns off not a set times like a timer but more randomly giving the appearance some one is always home, technically speaking, some one is always home

The possibilities are really staggering! Yes this technology has been around for awhile, but is only getting better and better!

Is this needed for every one? Of course not. I doubt if Jed and Ely Mae over at the trailer park would need such elaborate security features. But many could find the need for it. It is a very lucrative market right now. It also attracts techno geeks and gadget junkies like myself.

In the security industry we sell peace of mind, not equipment. For some this can be achieved with just $500. For others it could cost $1 million dollars.

I just find all this technology very interesting

[linty]

i just can't see how a security system is made more secure by being able to "manually" check up on things periodically. the chances of catching something while it's happening are very slim unless you are vigilantly watching your house which you shouldn't have to seeing as you paid for the system.
i know there are a few uses, especially if you want to watch employees or something like that (our retired owner watches us, which annoys me to no end) but 99% of the people who buy it from us really have no need to.

[devildog]

The biggest problem is that the electronic stuff, even the high end stuff, is utter crap, and I do mean CRAP. I'd rather have a $200 medeco deadbolt than a $2000 high-end electronic lock on my front door. The best mechanical stuff is MUCH more effective and reliable than the best electronic stuff right now, and the electronic stuff costs 10 times as much. The only thing I've yet heard of that's even coming remotely close to being acceptably reliable is the Mas-Hamilton X-0x series, and I think I've even heard some safe techs on here (believe it was headhunter) complain about it, and I'd still MUCH rather have a nice Group 1 mechanical lock, like a S&G 8400 series, on an expensive safe I've just bought than I would an X-09.

The electronic stuff, even the high-end stuff, tends to have many MORE vulnerabilities than the mechanical devices, so please don't say the electronic devices are more secure because they can't be picked--so you're saying the electronic devices can't be BYPASSED then? BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!! Yeah right! That incident with the 'Bluechip' (or whatever it was, it was Blue-something) lock, that Barry Wels has talked about in his presentations before, and the big-a$$ magnet is NOT the EXCEPTION to the rule for electronic locks: it IS the rule!!

I'm not an old fart, I'm in my early 20's, I'm a bit of a computer hacker, I've messed with linux since I was 12, I've learned to program in a couple different languages, I'm a ham radio operator and have been for a decade now, and I'm a bit of an electronics hobbiest and have constructed several of my own circuits before AND (whenever feasable)......I'll take mechanical over electronic every day of the week and twice on Sunday, thank you very much!!

[raimundo]

what about marlock, has anyone got any information on this electronic lock with a metal key that shows 3 black plastic stripes along it, (you can shine a strong light through those stripes and see the codeing) the combinations would seem complex enough to get a billion combs, but what if a tiny discoball was inserted into the lock?
Seriously, does anyone have any knowlege of Marlock to share, are they still making them?