I learned an important rekeying lesson today

[freakparade3]

Today I replaced the outside lockset on a condo building. The lock they had on it was not intended for outdoor use and was mounted upside down for years so it did not work well. I removed the old lock and installed a new one that I rekeyed to match the old one. I quickly learned that even if a new lock is keyed the same, the old worn down keys will not work with new pins in the lock. That is a lesson that I have never read anywhere, mabye it's common sense and I didn't get it. Needless to say I ended up cutting alot of new keys. Anyone else had this happen? Or is this something that everyone knew and just didn't tell me???

[horsefeathers]

Thats why key cutting machines have adjustments on them to cut shallower or deeper, to allow for worn keys....

That said, it is still not easy to determine just how much shallower the cuts need to be on the blank just by looking at the worn key. I ususally need to do a two or three variations of depths to get it spot on!

Did you charge them for the keys?

regards

[lunchb0x]

a few locks I have to rekey are too old worn out keys and the customer does not want to spend the money to fix everything up, the way I was shown at trade school to fix this is to file the bottom of the pin, but what I have been doing over the years is to file the top of the pin because it is easier, but you do have to file of a little burr off the pin afterwards, and sometimes lightly ream the plug so all their keys work, it is alittle dodgy though

[freakparade3]

Did you charge them for the keys?

I did not charge them for the keys.

[Eyes_Only]

I just step down on the micrometer setting on the guide by .001 each time I cut it for the worn lock and keep cutting down .001 until the key works smoothly.

Of course thats what I do when I do things on my own at home. At work we just end up filing the pins or most of the time install brand new locks because the old ones arn't working right in the first place.

[freakparade3]

I did install a new lock repinned to match the old one. I never thought about the old keys not working with new pins. I'll know next time, ust part of the learning experience I guess.

[zeke79]

Wow, definately a situation where you SHOULD charge for new keys. Not kicking you at all, just stating what I feel the situation warranted. If locks and keys are worn enough to not work with a newly code cut key then the keys should be recut and cylinders repinned.

How many keys did you cut and give away?

[freakparade3]

I cut and gave away 24 keys. The way I looked at it the blanks cost me 17 cents apiece, and I am just starting my business. Seems to me the next time anyone in the building needs a locksmith they will remember how I treated them.

[vrocco]

That's a good point that a lot of people miss. I am new to the lock stuff, but I have done computer repair and consulting for years. I regularly give away cables or other parts. People remember that kind of service the next time they need someone to do the work.

[raimundo]

back in the day, before code machines, etc, the solution would have been to make shallower cuts on the blank by wrapping a matchbook cover around the straight edge of the key to be copied, before fitting it in the vicejaw, this raises the cut on the blank by about .025" or approximatly one step in the bitting. then you put this in the lock, and impression very quickly to the line that works. and make your copies of the result.

[RodVT]

I am a little confused here. The old keys didn't fit the new pins. If the keys were worn, doesn't that mean you needed longer pins so the worn keys could lift them to the shear?

And how about the old lock? The pins didn't stretch in that as the lock wore in. Did the top and bottom pins wear at the shearline so they "didn't care" about not being lifted quite far enough? Is that condition reproducable with a little sanding or filing to make the cylinder/pins "sloppier"?

[freakparade3]

At the time I did the work not alot of people were in the building so I did not have alot of keys to try out. Longer pins would have worked on some keys i'm sure but I did not have everyones key to try out. I felt that making new keys for everyone would be better than getting a dozen phone calls about keys not working. The old lock was never intended to be outside, and it was installed upside down. The pins did not move properly and from the dent on the front of the lock it appears someone had tried to bump it. I worked out the problem in what i thought was the best way. I like to see the other options here though, keep them coming.

[globallockytoo]

a few locks I have to rekey are too old worn out keys and the customer does not want to spend the money to fix everything up, the way I was shown at trade school to fix this is to file the bottom of the pin, but what I have been doing over the years is to file the top of the pin because it is easier, but you do have to file of a little burr off the pin afterwards, and sometimes lightly ream the plug so all their keys work, it is alittle dodgy though

LUNCHB0X.....I am surprised at you. If Sean Coulson or Max Cherry or Gary Wilson heard you talking about filing pins or reaming cylinders....you would fail on the spot.

Sometimes, you find it necessary to do these things but it is not a taught method....we discussed it before in here....there was some colorful conversation from memory.

[globallockytoo]

I cut and gave away 24 keys. The way I looked at it the blanks cost me 17 cents apiece, and I am just starting my business. Seems to me the next time anyone in the building needs a locksmith they will remember how I treated them.

Giving away your profits is a bad habit to get into....even as a marketing ploy....because....people will expect you to give it away next time....

Does Rupert Murdoch give any of his newspapers away?

Certainly, by all means, offer discounted product....but never give it away. You'll be out of business very quickly.

[lunchb0x]

a few locks I have to rekey are too old worn out keys and the customer does not want to spend the money to fix everything up, the way I was shown at trade school to fix this is to file the bottom of the pin, but what I have been doing over the years is to file the top of the pin because it is easier, but you do have to file of a little burr off the pin afterwards, and sometimes lightly ream the plug so all their keys work, it is alittle dodgy though

LUNCHB0X.....I am surprised at you. If Sean Coulson or Max Cherry or Gary Wilson heard you talking about filing pins or reaming cylinders....you would fail on the spot.

Sometimes, you find it necessary to do these things but it is not a taught method....we discussed it before in here....there was some colorful conversation from memory.

i know its not good to do but if the customer doesnt want to spend the money to do the job properly their is not much options, and im not going to do it properly and for free, but if I do have to do it the "dodgy" way I explain it to them, oh yeh and max has shown me something dodgy anyway, and im sure ben has some dirt on sean

im pritty sure it was richard that told us to file the bottom of the bins aswell