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hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

This is the old Locksmith business info area and will be broken down to fill in the new sections below.

hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby scoobyhunter » 11 Oct 2008 12:40

hello everybody,im new here and would like to firstly say how impressed with the forum and how much usefull info is available,at the moment im a motorcycle/quad/car mechanic,im teaching myself to be a locky,im only a begginer at the moment but im getting there.ive got a question for u, just say u get a call out to a guy whos locked himself out late at night,so you pick the lock in a couple of mins,and ask for payment of whatever it is,say for eg,£60, it turns out that the blokes a bit of a MuFfIn and says,"you can get fcukd,i aint paying that much for such little work!" or, "sh1t i forgot my wallet!" what do u do? i mean the guy might be a massive meathead who cant spell truck but can pick one up! im not gonna fight him for it,call police???
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby scoobyhunter » 11 Oct 2008 14:37

sorry i realise that ive posted this in the wrong sub-forum,would admin be so kind as to move it for me pleasey? thanks, :D
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby Olson Burry » 11 Oct 2008 14:48

I would get any client to sign for work to be done for a few reasons; So they cant blame you for damage to the lock, they state they're authorised to enter the premises and you've made them aware of your minimum call out charge or at least a minimum of time you'll charge and what they'll be expected to pay.

If properly written it might be better than nothing, best have a solicitor look over it to make sure.
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby jimb » 11 Oct 2008 15:09

After you open the car grab the keys and hold them until you get paid. If they decide not to pay toss the keys back in the car and lock the door. If they then decide to pay get it before you do the second unlock. It's up to you to decide if your going to charge them for the second unlock. :)
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby scoobyhunter » 11 Oct 2008 16:04

sounds like a plan,thanks. i carry on learning....................
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby prag » 11 Oct 2008 17:01

This is a serious question. We need to make a living just like any other guy after all we also have bills to pay. I have posed this very question to other locksmiths and the best answer I got was along this line, "Sir, no problem we can sort the problem but will you be paying by cheque or cash?" This can be done when you initial contact or when giving a quote. Never leave the stating payment for after the job. Your perception of a good remuneration and the customer is different.

It's all about posture and don't be apprehensive to state your price. Hell practice this infront of a mirror till it becomes 2nd nature, you'll see it works.

Good luck :)
IF life throws you lemons
MAKE LEMONADE
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby barbarian » 11 Oct 2008 19:47

How about getting paid before you do it ? Blame it on "The Boss".

I took a taxi the other day, for quite a long distance. ($75) The cabbie told me it was a requirement from the boss that anyone without an account had to pay upfront because they had so many troubles. If I didn't have cash he could drive me to an ATM.

Then you could promise to refund if you can't open it.
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby scoobyhunter » 12 Oct 2008 13:11

yes i think its a good idea to state beforehand what the job will cost,i understand it difficult to give an exact price sometimes due to unforeseen probs on the job,so a price "bracket" would be good.could someone pm me with what u would charge here in the uk for various jobs ie, lockout(pick lock) change cylinder,call out fee,late night fee?? its just i dont want to phone lockys up with bogus questions on what they charge,i work in the motor trade and get phonecalls every day,and a lot u can tell are just waisting time and u will never here them again,so i know how annoying it can be. your info would be much appreciated. has anyone ever heard of a "narcoleptic locksmith?? lol, thats me!!! sometimes a bit hard to stay awake!! :shock:
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby rohi » 13 Oct 2008 10:16

I've had this a couple of times, that a customer refuses to pay for so little work.

I always stay in the doorway untill they get their wallet out. 8)

If they start arguing about the costs for the job, i just slam the door shut and tell them to pay up whitin the next 30 seconds, or i'll charge them for opening the door again.

This usually has the desired effect, if not, i call the police and let them sort it out.

I always state my price and conditions ( price includes 30 minutes of labour, no materials) before i go to the job, so there shouldn't be any problems.

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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby Engineer » 16 Oct 2008 0:23

Be very careful - taking anything from the person, even to relock the car/house door could be considered assult in the Uk and you could be in trouble with the Police - Or he just might thump the stuffing out of you for being "clever".

I'm in the UK, do martial arts and built like the proverbial s***house, but even I take a LOT of precautions, knives and guns are not unknown after all. So what can you do? Well, this is what I do, whether you choose to do the same is up to you of course.

1) Make a quick assessment of the customer, are they nervous or edgy? Remember you could be being conned into letting someone back into their house after a split-up so they can take stuff, wreck the place or whatever. Listen to your instincts and never be afraid to walk away (say you haven't the right tools for THAT lock or something). You don't want to spend time in court over a bitter domestic dispute as you were conned into letting someone back into the house.

2) Say it is "company policy" and that your boss insists on the money upfront for every job. Usually the answer is their wallet, money, cheque book or whatever is on the other side of the door they want opening...

3) If so, take out a clipboard and fill in a sheet in advance (always have a few pre-printed at the back of a pad or something) and make a great show of noting down all the details of the car, including the registration/licence plate of course. Make sure the customer sees this, so they will know you have plenty of details to give to the Police, this should disuade a few more of them from trying to rip you off. If it is a house, then make a big show of writing down the address, customer name etc.

4) Ask for their mobile number and then RING IT there and then infront of them, to make sure they have given you the right number. Again say that it is a "legal" requirement you have to do, to help ensure that they do have a right to request entry into the house/car or whatever and again, make a big show of writing down the number.

5) Make sure the form has the correct date, the agreed amount on it and then get the customer to sign it. DON'T sign the form youself first (if the form expects you to sign it as well). This way the client doesn't know your name if problems do occur.

6) Dont fight! You might get a good kicking of course, you might even get a broken arm (makes picking locks difficult), or you might win - Only for them to then lie like mad to the Police after and have you arrested for whatever their diseased mind can come up with. Even if you can prove you are innocent, can you really afford a day or two in court defending yourself, instead of being out there earning? Even if you do win, you might get a false call-out the following week, only to be ambushed by his bigger mates.

7) At the first sign of trouble, call the Police and let them deal with it. They are licenced to manhandle people, you are not!

8) Even if you don't get paid, how much have you really lost? Not the full £70 or whatever you were going to charge them, really it's just some of your time and a few quid on diesel. Better than waiting six months for your case to come up in court if you retaliate?

If this sounds like being a wimp to someone, please remember that the law in the UK allows you to ONLY use reasonable force to defend yourself or others, but ONLY until the moment your opponent is considered no longer such a serious threat. If a fight breaks out, whether you win or loose, the other person is likely to complain to the Police and then they of course do have to investigate the claim. I personally know someone who went into his own home when he found it broken into. The burglar was on the premises and a minor scuffle broke out. The home owner was fined more then the burglar was, because the very act of going back into his own house could be considered provocative of a confrontation.

I KNOW IT'S DAFT! The law is trying to change thank goodness, so that it is more balanced, but until it is, it is probably best to call the Police yourself.

Just one point of interest, if you have to open a door in extream circumstances, such as a home reposession, then ring the lock Police station and ask for them to be in attendance. Usually they are fine about it, as they are stopping trouble breaking out after all.

Personally, I rarely get anyone trying to avoid paying - I usually get them trying to negotiate the price down once the door is opened, even though they agreed to it in advance! People will agree to a lot when they are locked out, but once the door is open again, they are usually more concerned about parting with their money.

If they do seem reluctant to part with the money, remind them they have now signed a legal contract and if you don't go back with the full ammount, the boss will sell the bad debt onto a debt collection agency he uses - Sympathesise with them and say no-one wants an aggressive debt collection agency after them. Usually they will see sense.

Hope this might help a little?
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby scoobyhunter » 16 Oct 2008 12:43

some very useful tips,thankyou very much lads, :D
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby barbarian » 16 Oct 2008 13:00

Great answer by Engineer.

The only additional thing I thought of is to ask them the number inside the house and ring that. Listen at the door and see if you can hear it ring.
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby tacedeous » 17 Oct 2008 7:04

thats nuts! i didnt realize UK law was so Back Assward, in the us the theifs confrontation was clarified when they made illegal entry... but this too can be twisted, (we've all herd the case about the robber who made entry via skylight, fell through and landed on a knife that was left on a cutting board, the owner did nothing but call police to the scene, and at the end of the day a judge made the homeowner pay damages to the crook!!!) ive always herd if you do find burglary in progress in your home and you do draw a weapon, shot to kill, make sure you do, make sure thier in the house, call the police when perp is doa, and only say " I FELT MY LIFE WAS IN DANGER SO I REACTED" leave it there at that sentance, call your lawyer and stick to your story/rights...

bottom line if your breaking into peoples homes expect something bad to happen...

ALWAYS PROVE RESIDENCY FOR RESIDENTIAL, AND DOCUMENT YOUR CUSTOMERS IDENTIFICATION, (how much is a scanner and laptop really... and creating the correct documents wont cause you to much grief, in comparison to being apart of a felony that you had no knowlege of...) I know it sounds extreme, but think of the flip side...
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby jdislandlock » 17 Oct 2008 14:26

throw the keys back into the locked car and say,
how about now, still want it?? and charge him more
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Re: hello everyone,and what to do with non payer??

Postby WOT » 23 Oct 2008 0:58

Common sense would say that you make the cost very clear upfront, before you even go out to site. Unlock, get the keys out, then hold the key as collateral until paid or a satisfactory payment arrangements have been made.

If it's a RENTAL don't even bother doing anything, but payment on the spot as the driver is not too concerned about having a lien placed on the vehicle. Otherwise, you can do payment arrangements, and if the customer fails to come through, you could put a mechanic's lien on the vehicle. (collect VIN & plate #)

If it's a house, you can put a mechanic's lien on the property. Have the customer sign an agreement ahead of time, then if the customer couldn't pay at the time, have him mail you a check. If he refuses, or won't do so in a reasonable time, mail him a reminder that you are expecting a payment and you intended to file a mechanic's lien on the premise if payment is not received.

I've let myself get locked out by a Kwikset and when I called, I wasn't able to pay him until I could go inside, as my check book was inside.. so it's often unrealistic to expect the customer to have the funds to pay you on his person (purse/wallet in car, check book inside the house, etc).

Getting in direct confrontation is likely to get you in trouble and I would see it as an unprofessional conduct. You've gotta have the skills to do the work, but also got to have the proper administrative procedure.
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