Dissatisified customers?

[Engineer]

I've just come across this topic on a website for cars

http://www.omicron.uk.com/sera/forum/index.php?showtopic=4643

Some of those people come from near me. Fortunately none are my customers, but how many dissatisified customers are there for vehicle keys? From the attitude on that group, it seems customers are almost EXPECTING bad keys from locksmiths - That can't be good for the image?

I think I'm cutting the keys accurately, but then I wonder how many of thier locksmiths thought the same. I'm wondering about the adviseability of asking some of the friendlier types if I can try the key afterwards in the car, to make sure it does work.

I wondered if others thought this was a good idea, or am I overlooking some drawback? I'm just so horrified at the acceptance of customers being "ripped-off" like that.

[jpb06080]

Have you calibrated your machine recently? Thats always a good idea. Also, at the shop I work at, we gaurantee every key, so if we cut one that doesnt work, we'll recut it till it does. Perhaps offering your customers a similar service would help ease your worries.

[straightpick]

Auto keys can be easily miscut if they are not registered properly in the vises. My machine has 4 way jaws and I always use a jaw that will grip the key at one of the main grooves. If you just put the key in a standard vise, there is a better than average chance that the key will not be parallel completely across, due to a high point causing the key to cant. Registering with a groove will eliminate this.

On another note, have any of these customers returned the miscut keys, or just come in and complain that the key didn't work, giving you a key to re-duplicate? Don't underestimate what some people will do to get something free. One time I went to Lowe's (a large hardware chain with a no questions asked return policy) and bought a single pole light switch, cost 89 cents. Upon opening the box I discover a used switch in it, with wire under the screws. Someone had bought the switch, drove home, cut the old switch off, put it in the box and returned it! Now figure the mentality, this person made four trips to the store, for 89 cents! Apparently his time was not worth much!

[jpb06080]

Auto keys can be easily miscut if they are not registered properly in the vises. My machine has 4 way jaws and I always use a jaw that will grip the key at one of the main grooves.

Silca's bravo II?

[Engineer]

Yes I do calibrate my machines regularly and should be cutting perfect keys. The article however was pointing out how many customers get vehicle keys cut and they don't work. They never go back to complain though and just accept that you will have to visit several cutters and get several keys cut, until they get one that works.

Well, if the customers are not coming back to let you know the key didn't work, I got to wondering how many of us bother to check vehicle keys do actually work, or do we just assume they must have worked as no one came back to complain? Not realising that that on vehicle enthuast websites, the locksmithng profession is being brought into disrepute?

Fortunately none of the people in that article seem to be customers of mine, but are near enough to me that there is a chance I may know the Lockies they are complaining about.

I have checked a few of the vehicle keys I've cut recently and have been relieved they have all worked. Think of it as "quality control" - How many of us do bother with QC?

I suspect Straightpick is right, I'm guessing that the keys that get cut and don't work are probably going to be due to registration problems when putting the keys in the vices. They will look OK, but just be that fraction out.

[Jaakko]

The best thing to do when cutting keys is to give your business card with the keys and say "call/visit me if there is a problem".

[Engineer]

That's good advice Jaakko, it wouldn't cost much and would look very professional compared to competitiors service. Anything that gives you an edge these days is worthwhile.

The best thing to do when cutting keys is to give your business card with the keys and say "call/visit me if there is a problem".

[mhole]

We decline to do car keys with out the car being present, and usually ask the client to leave it with us for an hour so we have ample time to cut, test, and if necessary refine the key.

Before I was locksmithing I had spare key cut for my brothers car. I got a working .but far from perfect copy. It worked fine in the doors but was pretty stiff in the ignition. The first time I used it I blew up the starter motor of the car, because the key didn't return to the neutral position after starting the engine, which left the starter motor engaged all the way home.

Apparently running the starter motor like a dynamo lets the smoke out.

[Brett McMenimon]

It's usually the price of the new transponder keys that leave my customers unhappy.

But the dealers charge an absolute fortune for them and the blanks are not cheap, it just leaves my customers with a sour taste in their mouth. You def do not want to cut those wrong though! Thats a costly mistake!

[nostromo]

Could the reason be for customer's expectation of having keys copied badly be from all the 'any employee can do it' key machines in retail locations? Little if any training seems to be provided and many employees seem to regard cutting keys as an interruption in their day.

It feels like the odds of getting a key cut that will work is about a flip of the coins' chance. So if everyone gets used to those odds, they might think EVERYONE cuts keys that bad, even if it's a lock shop?

[Engineer]

mhole, that is a significant post from you. I wonder how many locksmiths realise that a badly-cut key could even cause a fire with massive damage to the car?

Someone could sue the locksmith for that then. In your case an expensive starter motor, but if the car had been written off because it caused a fire? Your insurance company would sue the keycutter and I would have thought they would have won as well.

This is another good reason for getting vehicle keys right - It is not just as a matter of professional pride, but getting it wrong could cost you a lot of money.

Thanks for that!

[Engineer]

Brett McMenimon and Nostromo, those are intereting posts from you as well.

I see so often on car & motorbike fora, owners furious with the cost of replacement keys from dealers. So often the advice on there seems to be to buy the blank of eBay and then try finding someone who will cut it for you locally. as a way of keeping the cost down.

I do wonder how many keycutters are cutting an unfamiliar blank then and think they have cut it right, but haven't? The fora do have many posts along the lines of "it took me three goes to find a 'locksmith' who cut it well enough for it to work". then complaining about the cost of three blanks, the delays and paying to have it cut three times at three different places.

Until I stumbled across these postings, I had not realised that so many people were getting such badly-cut vehicle keys and worse to my mind, were just accepting that such poor service was "normal" somehow. they were so accepting of it being normal that they were not even going back to the shops and complaining, so the shop was not even aware they were cutting them incorrectly.

[WOT]

Whenever a cutting wheel is changed, the depth must be calibrated to compensate for slight difference in diameter and calibration should be accurate to 1/1000" using a key micrometer. 5

[Jaakko]

Whenever a cutting wheel is changed, the depth must be calibrated to compensate for slight difference in diameter and calibration should be accurate to 1/1000" using a key micrometer. 5

Basically you have to calibrate it every time you loosen it, as there is at least 0.02 mm of gap between the cutting wheels hole and the axle it attached to.

[Wizer]

Every time I cut a key, I tell the customer to try it out. And if theres any problems, please come back. If two or three keys cut with same machine comes back in few days, I calibrate the machine.
Sometimes people try to save money by getting their blank from ebay or other sites, and half of those cases the costumer has a wrong blank, or a blank without a transponder, or wrong transponder. They don´t save much money even if they have the right blank, because usually I charge the same price weather its customers own blank or mine. If they have an expencive remote control key with transponder, and I make a mistake cutting it (theoretically, since I don´t make mistakes ), I have to get them a new key, that could cost 100-200e from the car dealer. So this risk has its price, and customers with their own blank will pay for it.
I´ve heard a few times that a wrongly cut key jams in the keyway, and a couple cases where the immobilizer jams, but never of starter or the car burning. I suppose anything can happen if the key is not correct.