Locksmithing Espionage

[The Speed of Dark]

Okay so it's not really espionage - what do you want me to change the title!? But why! It's so cool.

Our shop has been having trouble with competing Locksmiths, generally those working out of their trunk, calling us with blocked numbers and asking us about our prices. The person at the other end of the phone (the private numbers in this case) are then quoting a lower price than us. I am by all means in favor of this and do not believe it to be cheating. I do however want to put them out of business.

As a noob apprentice I would foolishly give out the prices without asking questions: 'Where are you located?' 'What's your name?' 'What's your call back number?' and the sorts. If there is a long pause and a very general answer I will just hangup on them.

I realize that social engineering is only illegal in some states and under certain "Grey and undefined circumstances", so I am all for it. It is however annoying as hell when I fall for it.

I don't suppose anyone knows of a way to bypass these blocked numbers? I want to call them back, assuming they are my competition, and ask them more annoying and bogus questions: Them: "ABCZ143 Locksmiths, how may I help you?"
Me: "Hi is this ABCZ143 Locksmiths?"
Them: "Yes it is"
Me: "Yeah is this a Locksmith?"
Them: "...... *Dial tone is all that is heard*

So be aware my fellow Locksmiths out there who are trying to earn an honest buck without tricking others out of money.

Please anyone's feedback on bypassing a blocked number - REPLY!

[Squelchtone]

You can set your phone line up so that you cannot call into it with a Private or Blocked number. it's a * code like *83 or whatever your telco is using. Call your business phone rep and ask them how to turn this free feature on.

good luck,
Squelchtone

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Don't mess with them for whatever reason; it's only going to cause additional trouble for you and your employer. Plus, you don't want to get in the train of thought where you immediately suspect fraud in each and every customer asking for a quote - you could potentially offend a propsective customer just doing their homework. Come off with class and professionalism in this situation by not stooping to their level.

Keep quoting prices (that is a part of any locksmith's job after all). If you're confident in your work and the services that you offer then you shouldn't feel any sort of slight by telling anyone (customers, competition, etc.) what you charge.

If anything, feel humbled that they're having to resort to these measures to get information (which should be public anyways). It shows that they lack even the basic understanding of your service area and the typical rates which is a good implication that they aren't as well versed or experienced as your company.

You: "Hello, this ABC locksmith, can I help you?"
Them: "What would you charge to re-key 3 locks?"
You: "Is this commercial or residential? Would you be bringing the locks in or would you like us to come out to re-key them?"
Them: *whatever response*
You: " That will cost *price*, would you like to schedule us to come out and take care of that for you?"

Again, just come off with class and professionalism and you'll be well on your way to handling the situation. The best way to "get even" with these guys is to prove that your company is better through indirect ways (quality of work, professionalism, a caring and honest approach to problems, etc.).

[Poff]

Okay so it's not really espionage - what do you want me to change the title!? But why! It's so cool.

Our shop has been having trouble with competing Locksmiths, generally those working out of their trunk, calling us with blocked numbers and asking us about our prices. The person at the other end of the phone (the private numbers in this case) are then quoting a lower price than us. I am by all means in favor of this and do not believe it to be cheating. I do however want to put them out of business.

As a noob apprentice I would foolishly give out the prices without asking questions: 'Where are you located?' 'What's your name?' 'What's your call back number?' and the sorts. If there is a long pause and a very general answer I will just hangup on them.

I realize that social engineering is only illegal in some states and under certain "Grey and undefined circumstances", so I am all for it. It is however annoying as hell when I fall for it.

I don't suppose anyone knows of a way to bypass these blocked numbers? I want to call them back, assuming they are my competition, and ask them more annoying and bogus questions: Them: "ABCZ143 Locksmiths, how may I help you?"
Me: "Hi is this ABCZ143 Locksmiths?"
Them: "Yes it is"
Me: "Yeah is this a Locksmith?"
Them: "...... *Dial tone is all that is heard*

So be aware my fellow Locksmiths out there who are trying to earn an honest buck without tricking others out of money.

Please anyone's feedback on bypassing a blocked number - REPLY!

At the risk of losing a customer who has a time sensitive issue, you could make up an excuse to take a name and number to call back with the quote when ever you get a call from a blocked number. If you have a receptionist or non-locksmith employee answering the phone you can easily say the person who quotes jobs is on another line when a blocked number comes up.

[EmCee]

Blocking private or unlisted numbers risks losing private customers. I think Poff's solution is good.

Having said that, I agree with everything Confederate said. The problem is that many/most/all customers won't know enough to distinguish good service from bad, even after they've received it. Most customers will book the service based on quoted price so if competitors know your prices they can charge a bit less and get the work. Relying on your quality of work, professionalism, caring and honest approach to problems is exactly the right way to approach it, but you have to accept that it will take time for those attributes to have an impact compared with the poorer service from competitors, who in the meantime will be winning jobs on price.

Cheers...

[bobhdus]

Yeah, that would get annoying. I agree with Confederate and the others. But, I struggle with this issue on the other side of it as well. Honestly, I bought the National Locksmith Flat Rate Manual but still feel it would be better to know what the competition is charging as I do not do this full time like they do and would rather charge a little more to make it profitable for me to do this on my off hours. I have a full-time job as a Maintenance Mechanic/ Locksmith for a Manufacturing Plant and I can work OT there at will, so if I am working outside of my normal 40, spending time away from my family, it had better pay good. So if I charge more than average, and they accept, it's usually because they didn't like the local Lock shop or the time frame for the job. I do not want to compete with them or underbid them. I feel that the quality/ availability should decide who does the job. I usually refer others to the local shops anyways as I already do have a full time job and want to make sure they know I am not a threat. I am just trying to pay my bills, like they are. I also am able to do other services that they don't like weld and I do cnc machining. Gotta pay for the training and the tools as well. I don't advertise. I use word of mouth/ references.

[unjust]

while not typical, you could take a page from a page from my friend who runs an auto shop. he won't give quotes over the phone at all, but he'll tell you what a stock item like an oil change or tire rotation is. his reasoning is this: his business has enough business and *great* word of mouth that he doesn't need or want a customer who is only in the market for the cheapest solution. locks are a bit more stock prices, but things like "oh a rekey of that lock is $x but we include up to 5 free/unlimited discounted extra keys with it" is a better way than saying, it's $x. let them know they're getting service with it, that you guarantee your work for x years, and the customers you want will pay the extra buck or 5 you charge over jimmy in his beat up civic who'll do it on the cheap.

personally, when i need a key duped i'll go to the lockie down the street who's always friendly, is willing to chat with me about locksport, and occasionally gives me a junk lock or three out of their brass bucket to play with. i recommend them to everyone i know. they're actually cheaper than the big boxes, but even if it was a buck or two more i'd still be there.

[unjust]

also of note, if they can't sort out how to price their work, are you really worried about them as competitors?

[Poff]

while not typical, you could take a page from a page from my friend who runs an auto shop. he won't give quotes over the phone at all, but he'll tell you what a stock item like an oil change or tire rotation is. his reasoning is this: his business has enough business and *great* word of mouth that he doesn't need or want a customer who is only in the market for the cheapest solution. locks are a bit more stock prices, but things like "oh a rekey of that lock is $x but we include up to 5 free/unlimited discounted extra keys with it" is a better way than saying, it's $x. let them know they're getting service with it, that you guarantee your work for x years, and the customers you want will pay the extra buck or 5 you charge over jimmy in his beat up civic who'll do it on the cheap.

This can be kind of a double edge sword. While I see how it is difficult, especially for an auto repair shop or locksmith to quote over the phone, I do understand how a customer would want to call and ask about pricing. I am a mechanic at a small tree service, I do not have access to an alignment rack and my wife's car needed an alignment. I found an alignment shop that was highly recommended by my Snap-on dealer and on Yelp. Although I was intending to take the car there regardless of price, I still asked how much it was going to cost. They told be exactly how much, but I would have understood if they gave me at least the minimum it was going to cost as a guideline.

Also, a lot of people are not internet savvy or do not have access to sites like Yelp to find reviews. Most homeowners do not call a locksmith very often and may not even know anyone who has called one recently who they can ask for a reference. They are relying on the phone book and even if you can not give an actual price they may just want to have an idea of cost before you show up. Not an unreasonable request. Even though some are a pain in the ass and want the exact price, this is not always the case and the way you handle it can cost you a customer. It's all about customer service. You never know if someone is a customer or "fishing for rates".

My next door neighbor is also a mechanic, a grumpy old mechanic. One day he was bitching about how stupid customers are. I said, "If the customers knew what we know, they would do it themselves."

FYI, I have a blocked number at my house. My brother is in law enforcement locally so I am unlisted and blocked.

[unjust]

well, it is and it isn't he's the top rated mechanic in town and one of the cheapest. he doesn't want stupid customers. he wants honest engaged customers, and he's usually so full of them that he has to turn some away. he'll often say something like well, if it's only 2 wheel brakes pads and absolutely nothing else is wrong i could give you a number, but if the rotors are warped, or a caliper is seized or anything else, i'd have lied to you, and i don't feel good about that. bring it in, we'll get the wheels off and look, and i'll call you back with a quote, if you don't like it, you can take it elsewhere. 70% never show, but 30% become return customers.

lock work and auto work are different, and once you know the basic tricks you can change your brake pads or install a deadbolt. many folks don't (or don't want to) own the tools, or would rather not spend the time. that doesn't mean they don't care that it's done correctly, or want to be over charged.

i used to work for a small home builder, and to be honest, courting stupid customers with quality was why the company failed. then i worked for a niche architectural design firm, that courted quality customers for quality work, and when i was finally laid off in the down turn EVERY one of my friends in the industry had seen significantly deeper layoffs than we had. if you want to court stupid customers, you'll have to do it on the (perceived) cheap, which can often lead to less ethical service. (i.e. i'm only getting $10 for this so i'm gonna do it quick and dirty)

i CAN do most of my own auto work, but i'd rather pay my friend to do it faster, and with the right tools than fret and worry, and discover i've got the wrong part and be stranded in my garage, than have him have napa return it and drop the right one off. (of course i'll often do work on my car with him at the shop and a 6 pack on weekends, but that's beside the point)

[Capt_Tom]

Don't mess with them for whatever reason; it's only going to cause additional trouble for you and your employer. Plus, you don't want to get in the train of thought where you immediately suspect fraud in each and every customer asking for a quote - you could potentially offend a propsective customer just doing their homework. Come off with class and professionalism in this situation by not stooping to their level.

Keep quoting prices (that is a part of any locksmith's job after all). If you're confident in your work and the services that you offer then you shouldn't feel any sort of slight by telling anyone (customers, competition, etc.) what you charge.

If anything, feel humbled that they're having to resort to these measures to get information (which should be public anyways). It shows that they lack even the basic understanding of your service area and the typical rates which is a good implication that they aren't as well versed or experienced as your company.

You: "Hello, this ABC locksmith, can I help you?"
Them: "What would you charge to re-key 3 locks?"
You: "Is this commercial or residential? Would you be bringing the locks in or would you like us to come out to re-key them?"
Them: *whatever response*
You: " That will cost *price*, would you like to schedule us to come out and take care of that for you?"

Again, just come off with class and professionalism and you'll be well on your way to handling the situation. The best way to "get even" with these guys is to prove that your company is better through indirect ways (quality of work, professionalism, a caring and honest approach to problems, etc.).

Cannot agree more. Be professional. Don't participate in rude and childish antics. It will turn around and break off in your keyhole!

[maintenanceguy]

Let the competition know your pricing and let them keep lowering their prices to beat your price.

You don't want to compete on price anyway. Getting business by being the cheapest eventually gets you to customers that can't afford to buy at any price.

There are 3 areas where a business can provide what customers want. All customers want : lowest cost, highest quality product, and highest quality service. The trouble is that it's only possible to provide any two of these but not all three. So pick your two and don't make an effort to provide the third - you can't.

low cost and high quality product means you must abandon the customer after the sale. No money left for service.
low cost and high quality service means you must provide junk quality. There won't be money left for quality.
high quality product and high quality service means you won't be able to charge a low price.

Which business are you going to be?

[Teddy Picker]

Some people have pointed out that some people will go to the lowest price, and it can take years to build up a reputation for being a good and caring businessperson. However, there's a flipside to that: the same people who just go to the lowest-priced locksmith in the phone book are also the worst kinds of customers; the kind who ask you to show up at 4AM and have already broken the door, who try to talk down your price further, who refuse to pay you for a service call. The customers who respect your professionalism and trust your expertise will value their business relationship with you as such. When you do it the hard way, charge reasonable prices, and let your work speak for itself, you're not just building a reputation, you're also weeding out the crap customers who suck up your time and energy and make your life miserable. When other locksmiths try to undercut your prices, what they don't realize is that they're going to be getting all your crap customers. It's a way to make money, I guess, but it's the least money for the most PITA.

(This not from experience in the locksmithing field, but from experience in software consulting.)