UK Auto locksmithing training

[79commando]

The latest con hitting the training schools is Auto training. The General trainers have finaly ran out of people to train in General Locksmithing so are now advertising Auto training with the same spiel about it being an untapped market, make loads of money etc. Check the trainer out; if last year they were training General Locksmiths and this year they have moved onto Auto chances are they are a con and just after your money.

The 2 main Breakdown Companies the AA and RAC are getting into the Auto key market in a big way; stitching up all the main dealer contracts and providing key cover for their members. This will reduce the amount of Auto work by almost 80%.

Take a look at all the Forces resettlement mags to see how the trainers have jumped on the band wagon then ask yourself where they got the so called expertise to train in Auto if they have been busy training General Locksmithing.

As Ex Forces myself it grates me to see personnel that have put their lives on the line being ripped off by these scum bags.

On top of this the main Key Programer suppliers sell more machines to the Vehicle repair market and Road Side Recovery companies than to locksmiths; you will see where all the work is going. Even the small independant garages are getting into Auto Keys.

Looking forward to seeing someone with a couple of posts saying how Company X has amazing Auto training and it's the best money he spent and how his phone hasn't stopped ringing.

[globallockytoo]

While I understand your gripe, it is probably a result of the lack of interest by sufficient numbers of locksmiths willing to invest in the transponder and auto key machine markets.

The significantly expensive buy-in to get into the auto game is somewhat prohibitive to smaller locksmith companies, especially with the current credit squeeze.

Those manufacturers are constantly seeking new markets to maintain their sales numbers.

Should the locksmith industry have a monopoly on that market? If so, what is to stop price gouging?

Perhaps the entry of "other" players into the game will spark a price war, bringing down the cost of making those types of keys.

After 2012 there will be a huge correction (The end of the world is nigh) Sheesh!

[79commando]

I fully support the Key programming companies selling their gear to those that buy it. They are after all in Business. It's the training companies I have the issue with as they fail to explain this to their students.

Prices have came down for the equipment and the number of Companies producing the gear has grown vastly. In the UK their used to be one main supplier who had the monopoly, now there are about 6 UK based and any number from Turkey, Poland, China etc advertising on the web. It's actualy quite refreshing seeing companies that used to bend you over when you bought their gear now suffering and I'm sure within a few years some of them will be out of business.

Anyone that went to this years MLA show in Telford Uk would have had a laugh as within 50m there were 5 main suppliers all competing for customers and selling the same gear but in different boxes. Each assured me their gear was the best even though it ran on the same software and came in the majority of cases from the same supplier. The prices even varied greatly for the same tool but justified this by saying they had the best Technical Support if you had a problem. Not bad you think unless you realise they have sold this gear to literaly thousands of customers yet only have one so called expert manning the help line. I know as I've been in the position of trying to get help. Not much use when you're with a customer in the rain and it takes 2 days to get back to you .

A bit like the General Training companies that promise a 24hr help line then train 10 people a week for years and never answer the phone as they're in Class or fed up answering the phone to questions they don't know the answer to as they're not realy locksmiths but trainers.

You only have to look at the key cutting and cobbler shops. 5 years ago they never touched transponder keys, now if the customer has one key a cobbler can clone it in 65% of the time and with the onset of the ID46 cloning the vast majority will get done in a corner shop somewhere; further reducing the requirement for an Auto Locksmith. Soon the likes of B&Q, Homebase etc will be offering this service.

I have no gripe with others setting up in the locksmith trade as I'm in the fortunate position where if every street in my City had a locksmith it would not affect my business. I earn my real money in other areas. I've just seen too many people lose everything by beeing conned into parting with their money on false promises.

[exspook]

79, take a look on resettlement sites and currently the AA are offering between 32 to 35 with OTE of 50K inside the M25

Talked to one of the blokes but most of the time they are at car auctions cutting and prog keys up

They have some well fitted out vehicles and all the new shiny stuff with good techy back up

[79commando]

The AA appear to have got it right. They have spent a fortune on the gear and have a massive customer base. On top of this they are paying their workers a decent wage which can only lead to loyalty. They also have access to all the main dealer gear including most pin and key codes. I'm not sure how many vans they are putting on the road equiped for Auto Keys but it's got to be a no brainer. They've over 12 million customers and if they charged an additional £5 to cover lost keys and gain entries they'd make a fortune and could put a 100 vans on the raods and still make a profit. Also with their insurance side they could cover the domestic market and knock the likes of Reactfast out of the game.

[exspook]

If they go domestic like dynolock I will give it a try

The guy I spoke to was happy, they pay well and the customer base is good...

interesting stuff

Enjoy your Christmas mate

[Rickthepick]

The 2 main Breakdown Companies the AA and RAC are getting into the Auto key market in a big way; stitching up all the main dealer contracts and providing key cover for their members. This will reduce the amount of Auto work by almost 80%.

interesting...
from what i hear they also have a few picks and other NDE tools available to them too

[79commando]

They have all the top of the range gear and the trainers to go with it.

[The Speed of Dark]

I live in Texas and there is some serious scamming going on here. There are a lot of "Locksmiths" from Israel that buy anywhere from 10-80-1000 spots in the yellow pages all over America and reference work to each other. They are not licensed and have charged $400 for a double cylinder rekeying that took no more than an hour. I personally encountered one guy two times in the same week: the first time he lied to the client and stole my job. The second time, the clients were "scared of him because he wouldn't leave" and thus I got the job. They are charging ridiculous amounts of money and are doing jobs that are illegal to be performed unless licensed. The Texas Locksmith Association has allegedly been cracking down on them. If you encounter one, get their information and report them.

[lockey1963]

had a good look over the AA van set up at the mla show , very interesting ;

every type of remote, chips and keys
repair locks , keying kits and lock sets for most makes
repair kits and parts for most makes
Fully loaded AD100 pro
fully loaded zed bull
omega mk2 eeprom reader
solder station
several main dealer tools
pre prepared eeproms
lap top full of info and software
merc and bmw programmer

unocode
bd laser
cylinder machine

every commercially available pick i could think of
full lishi pick , decoder and 2in1 tool
superb try out key sets for most laser makes
superb impressioning set

From what i saw of the kit along with the main dealer tools and main dealer cooperation including access to main dealer websites , id say there is very little the vans cannot cope with on auto , looking at the training thats planned for each engineer over the 3 month training period, there wont be much each engineer wont be able to deal with on a daily basis.

i would say we will feel little difference in trade for the next 2 years, but after this id say they will make a major dent as they expand across the uk, the initial 10 vans wont be enough , so they will still rely on contractors, but the writting is certainly on the wall long term , especially as rac are following them.

Alot of bitterness towards aa exists on many forums, however in reality its just come full circle, aa etc used to do car keys as did garages long before auto locksmiths came along and claimed the market as theirs, trouble is we all got a bit greedy with high rates due to high costs etc , charges were seen as extreme and the garages and aa etc have stepped back into the market as see an opportunity, so only really reclaiming their market share as they did years ago.

This along with the main wholesalers selling equipment and tools to the garage and recovery sectors in volume is going to force prices down and make workloads more sparce in many areas , this coupled with main key blank and remote wholesalers selling direct to public at same prices they sell to us, it all paints a grim picture long term.

auto entry and key and remote programming will become just another income stream in a long list of services offered by locksmiths, rather than remaining a specialist career as it has been, and as the trainers churn out 1 week auto lockies by the bus load bread and butter stuff will be almost non existent for most, and most will never even recoup their initial investments in kit.

i have to agree with the 1st post , the day of the specialist auto lockie is numbered , they have a good few years yet , but after this will need to adapt and evolve their businesses or go work for the aa etc.

[79commando]

One of the forums that was having a go at the AA is run by a Company that supplies the Key Programming kit to a couple of the Auto Trainers on a sale or return basis. Some of the users were moaning about 10 vans going on the road but missing the point that their main supplier is shafting them through the back door and keeping quiet about it. You can't blame them though as there are only about 20 Auto Locksmiths buying the gear from them yet hundreds of garages and cobblers. They sell more tools to the new guys as they're fresh meat, the established guys have already bought the gear so f them.

[lockey1963]

thats the problem theres only so many auto lockies , so once they all buy the kit theres no one left to sell it to if its kept in the trade, thus they have quietly been selling it to the garage industry for years, its only really come to light since the aa ads for employees.
if they kept it in the locksmith world then they would fold in no time , especially as many buy the copy machines rather than the expensive kit, so who can blame them.

I was called by a member of the public who asked for a quote on 2 remote keys , i quoted him and heard nothing from him for a week , he had bought 2 new remote keys from advanced keys online for same price as i pay from them and wanted me to program, if mainstream suppliers are selling to public at the same rates as too lockies, then theres something wrong.

i saw an email this week from davenports offering 2 seperate locksmith courses, at under £400 , their mailing list was interesting too, and with their new selling direct to public ethos now they are no longer a trade supplier as killing the very trade they supply, but at least davenports and advanced keys openly sell to the public , unlike the rest who hide the fact that many of them too do this.

all in all its a pretty screwed up industry , maybe the aa is the best option long term, salary , holiday pay and pension and fixed hours, certainly more appealing than buying into a dyno gamble.

[79commando]

There's definately a shift from looking after your tradesmen to making a quick buck in the last year. I suppose you can hardly blame them as there are so many companies setting up in competition with them they are no longer making the money off the backs of the locksmith. The problem the tradesman will have is once the general public find out how much locks cost it will be hard to make a profit.

I'd give it a year or two before even the big wholesalers start to crumble. I've seen one already move away from holding a good stock to everything being on back order. So much so that I rarely use them anymore which doesn't make much business sense if you ask me.

With the onset of the AA etc getting into the business it should get interesting over the coming year. It's a bit like the Nationals, for years everyone with common sense could see the effect it would have on the market yet some nieve fools couldn't see it.

I do laugh when I read some of the posts on other forums when they say the AA set up and business plans are a joke and bound to fail. One clown even said in reply to someone who must work inside the AA that the Business plan was most pretentious Bull he'd read in years and the figures a joke. This from someone so switched on he paid for a City and Guilds qualification and advertises it on his site .

[globallockytoo]

It is my belief that the future of the auto lock industry is dimmer than is understood.

The cost of remote control technology is coming down significantly and the cost of mechanical locks and keys is stagnant or rising.

Most vehicles use remotes today and many cars have an ignition button as opposed to a key cylinder. Remote fobs are getting better and better and the battery technology is getting longer and longer. RFID is a very secure system as is rolling code technology. You will start to see many more keyless vehicles in the near future.

This means that the auto locksmiths will invade the residential and commercial markets with a vengence. Prices will come down across the board because labor rates will have to reduce due to competition.

yesterday I did a lock out for $50 because the customer was going to wait 24 hours to get in to his room, to save $5. Most car openings I do. I'm lucky to be even considered at $55. I get 3-5 calls per day from price shoppers, most saying I'm too expensive at $55.

And my prices are going to have to come down when the market is further flooded by the number of auto locky's who wont have cars to work on.

Transponder equipment will be a thing of the past, this decade, as it will be a remote controlled world. Your mobile phone and your remote control, is all you will need to survive in the close future.

remote control technology is already here with products like Lockwood Nexion and others. The key will still be included for emergency override or back up, but I see it phasing out slowly.

[79commando]

There's definately changes ahead both Auto and Domestic. There are some top Auto guys out there with amazing skills (eeprom reading etc). The problem is the Key programmers have found a new market in pin reading by OBD so they can sell the kit onto novices. In a coulpe of years EEPROM reading will be like Latin. There will still be the odd specialist vehicle but they will die a death with the onset of keyless fobs and the cost of the vehicle not making it worth paying top dollar for.

The same has happened in the domestic market. You can set up now with some drill bits and drill templates that the suppliers will give you. With warrant work they used to pay good money if you could pick locks as they never had to pay for key returns etc. Now with hundreds of new start ups fighting for the work they have reduced the fee and expect the locksmith to pay for the locks out of his/her profit.

More locksmiths are getting into UPVC repairs and access control which will hit that market eventualy so it's not just the locksmith that will be effected longterm.