More dificult to pick lock.

[Microwarrior]

The idea is that the nub on the end of the driver pin fits into the narrow groove in the plug when in direct contact, but is kept out of the groove by the wafer when the wafer is raised past the shear line.

Has this been done before? Are there any problems with it? Any input would be helpful!

[kwoswalt99-]

I don't think that this exact idea has been produced before, but this is basically a lock with t-pins that has a groove for it to catch in. I don't see any problems with it, except that if the internals were known about before, it wouldn't be super hard to pick. And it might be possible to bump it. Although, if you did the idea#1 with all of the pin chambers it would be very difficult to pick even if the internals were known. If anyone tried to impression the bottom one, they would fail, unless they knew how it worked, then they could just cut all the heights down by a certain amount. On the bottom one you could have less than all of the chambers filled with idea#2 you wouldn't be able to cut all the heights down like that. Good first ideas.

[Microwarrior]

Thanks for the Reply!
I would probably use both the top and bottom drawing, idea #1 for anit-pick in three chambers and idea #2 in one chamber to prevent impressioning. So far the only problem I can see is that the key pins cant be too tall in design one or the wafer would be already past the shearline, while with idea #2 the key pin can always be shortened.

[kwoswalt99-]

Well, I liked the idea, so I went ahead and made one.


I didn't intend for the bitting to be so radical, but that's how it turned out. I couldn't make the special wafers any thinner, because they would turn aroud in the cylinder. Now I just have to see if I can pick it. I'd like to send it to bosnianbill and see how it holds up.

[kwoswalt99-]

I attempted to pick this lock and had no success. It worked just as I hoped. Set a few pins, and got a false set to about 45 degrees, with zero feedback after that.

[GWiens2001]

It seems similar to the pin-in-pin picking locks that one other member here made. Should pick the same way.

Gordon

[Microwarrior]

Looks good! The only thing I could suggest is to add serrations to help stop bumping and to even further prevent picking. Also, if the lock operates rough, putting totally standard pins in one a chamber should help! I have been trying to make my own model that goes to 90 degrees, but that is just about impossible without a drill press.

[kwoswalt99-]

@gordon. Where might this pin in pin lock be found? I've never seen it.
@microwarrior. I don't think serrated pins would prevent bumping. I also don't think that it needs to turn that far, just far enough that the key pins are completely separated from the drivers.

[Microwarrior]

@ kwoswalt99- I would agree with you completely on it not needing to turn 90 degrees and it probably doesn't need the serrations with your lock's bitting. The only reason I said that is if someone tried bumping it with a less difficult bitting, they are basically playing a game of chance with decent odds trying to get the correct side of the wafer on all of the stacks and I have always thought that that serrations help to prevent bumping. Also, did you need a drill press for the modifications to your lock's core or another tool, and if so, what? Thanks!

[kwoswalt99-]

Yeah, I used a drill press. I just happened to have a 1/16 HSS end mill, which worked nicely for cutting the grooves. I made a little jig to hold the core, which I held in a vice. I don't know about bumping with serrated pins. I know most security pins can be bumped just fine, and I always just assumed serrated ones were the same way.

[kwoswalt99-]

I found a similar idea here already, but I don't know if it's the one gordon was talking about.
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=46942#p353065
It's the first drawing in this post. It's the same idea, except it locks the cylinder if picked incorrectly, which I don't really like.

[kwoswalt99-]

@gordon. Where might this pin in pin lock be found? I've never seen it.

[GWiens2001]

Here is a vid Flywheel made of the modification.



And a video of it being picked and gutted.



Used as driver pins, these make it so the key pins will always feel that they can move freely until they are all are set at the shear line.

Gordon

[kwoswalt99-]

It seems similar to the pin-in-pin picking locks that one other member here made. Should pick the same way.

Gordon

I don't think they would pick the same way at all, but I could be wrong. I wonder if the lock ever made it's way to bosnianbill.

[FarmerFreak]

There is a way to tell if a pin is set correctly or not. Not that it makes it easy to pick, it doesn't..

Pick the lock to any combination. Only turn the lock about 1-2 degrees and STOP. Push each key pin until it makes contact with the driver or master pin, then push it up some more lifting the driver and master pin. A correctly set pin will have roughly 5 thousands of springy movement before coming to a solid stop. An incorrectly set pin is going to have roughly 30 thousands or more of springy movement before coming to a solid stop.