damaging locks

[Jaakko]

hey, is it normal that my padlock is having some brass power in it, i mean, when i (try) to pick it, after a while, when i turn it in a normal position, there is like brass powder coming out of it

i dont pick it like a total fool, i dont try to brak it, but is it somewhat normal?

No, that is not normal sounding thing. Are your picks sanded smooth after you made/bought them? If they have sharp edges, they will damage and scrape the insides of a lock and then you have handful of powder coming out (or not coming out and jamming the lock).

[DaveAG]

Picking a lock shouldn't damage it to the extent that it no longer works, but:

1.) The inexperienced can get themselves into situations that are recoverable, but require skill such as rotating the plug 180 degrees and having driver pins drop into the bottom of the keyway jamming the lock shut. If you single-pin pick a tubular lock you will need to be able to pick it many times. It may end up half way around and your pick-fu gives out being unable to pick it on or back, and now the key won't work either. If this happens you again have a problem.

2.) The truly hamfisted could do some internal damage that prevents correct operation with a key. Probably the easiest example to imagine would be if someone filed themselves a saw-toothed bump key, or wedged their picks in there and snapped them off.

3.) Disassembly / Re-assembly can screw things up royally. I've lost more top pins than I've had hot dinners some weeks. Mangling springs is possible, as is pinning a lock beyond your skill and not set to any key you hold (say beyond MACS)

4.) Some locks are designed with "trap-pins" that cause the lock to jam shut if picked or bumped

All of the above are good reasons to practice on locks bought specifically for that purpose. If you pick your front door lock and find out it has trap-pins, you haven't broken any laws but there is the small problem of a hardened lock to drill out and replace.

Even skilled careful picking will scratch the pins in a certain way so anyone picking a lock they don't own could be charged with Criminal Damage in addition to any other crimes committed. Also, forensically a lock that has been picked has tell tale scratches on the pins, so whilst picking is more subtle than kicking down the door, in the event of a crime both methods of entry could be detected.

[eduddude]

not quiet sure but my best guess would you could be scraping around in there and stuff could be coming out like old dust and paint or something. sorry if i am wrong but how old is it

[eduddude]

i also have 2 other questions.
1) i recently have repinned my lock and it seams to have no binding pin i'm applying lots and very little tensions with the wrench but it doesn't change i can just push the pins up and down freely.

20 my friend was picking a lock and he said the last pin would not go up no matter how hard he tried he even applied no tension and it still go up whats wrong?

if anyone knows what we are doing wrong it would be a great help if you could tell me. thank you

[Charodei]

Mangling springs is possible, as is pinning a lock beyond your skill and not set to any key you hold (say beyond MACS).

I haven't quite "mangled" a spring yet, but I've squished one or two. They still work, and it's a practice Kwikset, so I don't care much, though I try to be more careful. Setting it well beyond MACS gave me a good reason to try and pick it.

[I]f someone ... wedged their picks in there and snapped them off.

A small rare-earth (read: powerful) magnet could make a good extractor. It won't work on brass or aluminum, but will pull steel keys and picks out easily. Trying to use it in a steel lock could be rather tricky, though.

[Eyes_Only]

I think if you rake a lock real hard or too much can cause brass filing to pour out of the lock. When I was first learning on how to pick a Medeco I tried the raking method but since I don't rake too often and didn't deal much with Medeco's before I raked a bit too vigorously and the chisel tip of of 5 out of the six pins got pretty scored up, kind of like what Barry Wells did (I think a picture of the pins in his Medeco is up on blackbag). I should have realized something was wrong when I started to see a bunch of brass powder collect up at the back of my hobby vise.

[samfishers]

almost same thing as eye only, but after a while i started like taping the lock to the table and yes, there was brass powder, not a handfull, just a little, less than a 5 milligrammes

[DaveAG]

I haven't quite "mangled" a spring yet, but I've squished one or two. They still work, and it's a practice Kwikset, so I don't care much, though I try to be more careful. Setting it well beyond MACS gave me a good reason to try and pick it.

I've managed to mangle springs when disassembling and I somehow ended up slipping and having the plug half-way out of the shell and a spring going across the shear line. Even my longest hook couldn't clear it as there were no pins in the stack at all, so nothing to push against, so I used bruteforce to rip the spring in two , and got another spring from my pot.

No real harm, because it was only a practice lock off of ebay, but if I was 13 and desperately trying to put my parents front door lock back together before they got home I could have been in a tricky situation. I think that this is the kind of thing that people are trying to ram home to the novice picker. If breaking the lock causes you any problems, you shouldn't play with it.

[CompFX]

the bottom of the key hole is starting to get bent from me applying pressure with my tension wrench

what are you using for a tension wrench; A crowbar?

I have been working on the same Kryptonite padlock for over a month and it still looks like I just pulled it out of the package. There should be no bending or even marks on the lock that indicate picking. A few pins might get scuffed, but that is all.

brass powder coming out of it... ...is it somewhat normal?

No. Tap all the brass dust out that you can then put some lube in the lock. Make sure there are no sharp corners on your picks. Also, forcing the pins up while applying to much tension will start to shave the sides of the pins down and the lock will become more sloppy.

CompFX

[Chucklz]

i also have 2 other questions.
1) i recently have repinned my lock and it seams to have no binding pin i'm applying lots and very little tensions with the wrench but it doesn't change i can just push the pins up and down freely.

20 my friend was picking a lock and he said the last pin would not go up no matter how hard he tried he even applied no tension and it still go up whats wrong?

1.) You've done it wrong. If you apply alot of tension, all the pins in the lock will appear to bind. If this doesn't work, you've stuffed up something with your lock, or have a very different idea of heavy tension than the rest of us. If you apply ALOT of tension and nothing binds, take the lock appart and look for an error in assembly.

2.) Is this the same lock? What kind of lock? Padlock etc?
[/quote]

[eduddude]

i guess I'll take it apart. as for the other guy he's getting a new lock and he might give me that one since hes not so good a repining. and I'll try to re pin it and see what happens

[scissor83]

That is crap. Well if you arent quite experienced in picking locks then yes you can damage the locks. But if you are experienced and know the innerworkings of the lock and know how to pick properly the locks then no!

[JackNco]

Well its nice that you felt the need to add that and contradict your self. But to be honest even if you do know what you are doing. try working on a new lock that you cant open, after a while band the key way on a desk and you will often see brass dust come out. its just how it is, picking a lock adds more wear than using a key.

All the best

John

[JackNco]

ok i read that as "are" not are not. but my point still stands its not "crap"

[raimundo]

edud dude, I see your in cal a gary, theres a member here with the handle Varjeal, he lives in camrose, he could be quite helpful to you,

where is he now? Havent seen much of him on the site lately, did he take up skydiving or something?