False Sets and Large Picks

[Gelmar]

I'm relatively new to lockpicking. And as i've been making my way through the locks, I've found that I have a difficult time telling the difference between a false set pin and a true set. I usually tell if its set by the lack of tension. But sometimes all of my pins will have 0 tension but the lock still wont move.

Also along the same note, I've found that my tools are just too large for some locks and lockpickshop.com does not really specify size of tools. What are some good differently sized tools and where would I look for them.

I appreciate any suggestions.

[LeeNo]

If all of your pins are giving you zero tension but the lock won't open then you might have a spool pin that false-set very high and is being trapped at the shear line down by its lower edge. Take another feel at all your "zero-tension" pins and try lifting them all the way up until they hit the shell. Did one of the pins travel a little bit shorter distance before hitting the "shell"? If so, that is the spool driver pin.

This assumes a straight pin/tumbler lock and no additional dimples or pimples or secret pins


Lockpickshop.com offers a selection of "slimline" picks.

[josh0094]

welcome to the site!!

a false set pin... you can tell its false set by seeing the cyllindar turn a little bit. the way to get it to a "true set" is to push it up farther when the cyllindar is turned, and allow the cyllindar to turn back to the 12 o clock or so

But sometimes all of my pins will have 0 tension but the lock still wont move.

do you mean a certain pin? ive had that problem. the pin was really dirty.

[Gordon Airporte]

I'm relatively new to lockpicking. And as i've been making my way through the locks, I've found that I have a difficult time telling the difference between a false set pin and a true set. I usually tell if its set by the lack of tension. But sometimes all of my pins will have 0 tension but the lock still wont move.

False sets are caused by spool pins. If you feel the tell-tale 1 degree shift in the cylinder before it locks up again then you know you have false sets somewhere and it's time to test for spools.
If you don't feel the shift but none of your pins seems to have spring pressure on it then chances are that you're overset somewhere and you're missing it.

Also along the same note, I've found that my tools are just too large for some locks and lockpickshop.com does not really specify size of tools. What are some good differently sized tools and where would I look for them.
I appreciate any suggestions.

You could buy some 'slimline' picks, or get some files and sandpaper and reshape the picks you have to suit your needs.

[LeeNo]

I screamed as soon as I hit "submit" on my previous post. I was thinking of driver pins - which are usually the same length. There will be no way to tell which key pin is the security pin because they are of different lengths.

Just assume you have a security pin false set.

Sorry about that!

[LeeNo]

God, I wish there were an edit button....

You can also feel zero tension on all key pins if you underset the final binding pin - trapping it against the shell before it hits the shear line.

To test for that, let off the tension wrench a tiny bit and try to get that final binding pin (and only the final binding pin) to reset and then try to pick that pin again.

[josh0094]

leeno you beat me to the first post which makes me look bad because my whole post was geared towards that so disregard all of mine in this topic .

[Gelmar]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Next time I get into that situation I'll see what I feel and try to get a better understanding of whats happening.

[Gelmar]

Gordon mentioned "If you don't feel the shift but none of your pins seems to have spring pressure on it then chances are that you're overset somewhere and you're missing it. "

I feel like this could be a possibility as the locks I have are as cheap as I could find and it's unlikely they have spool pins. I'll take them apart to find out. This seems like it could be an issue. If I have a pin thats overset how can I tell its overset and do I have to reset the whole lock to get it down?


P.S. I've found a cut away practice lock and ordered it so it should be here in a week or so and I'll be able to see over set and underset and associate feels to them. Until then..!

[freakparade3]

Leeno, you were so excited when i gave you this link this would have been the perfect oportunity to pass it along

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/topics.html

This link will help you with what is going on inside of the lock. Most of the images are clickable and will start animation that shows you what is happening.

[Gelmar]

Absolutely an amazing website thank you very much!

[LeeNo]

Leeno, you were so excited when i gave you this link this would have been the perfect oportunity to pass it along

I actually thought about that but had already typed a lot and didn't remember where that thread was. I have copied that URL and pasted it into my profile on one of the unused fields so I can access it quickly. It is a great link!

[Gordon Airporte]

Oops - Leeno is right. You would have an underset pin, not overset, and it would be the last one needing just that final tap up to the shear line.

[FFVison]

Ok, I think that the post has already covered the false sets. I think I'll cover the next portion of it . Instead of trying to pick it like you would normally, you can pick it with the tension wrench at the top of the keyway, in front of the first pinstack. This is a technique I use when picking my Master 532, where the keyway is more restricted. You might want to try this out and see how it works. I found that the SouthOrd 14 piece that I got included a long hook and that was way too long for me to really find it useful.

Welcome to the site.

[Gelmar]

I have a 50mm Bell that I have to pick this way. The tension wrench takes up too much space at the bottom of the keyway. It's still a little inconsistant becasue the plug is loose so pins are getting stuck or unsetting.

With most basic pins and drivers though (with time) I'm able to get them open. I have about 3 confidence boosters to help me along though.