Simple bit pin tumblars/warded lock info

[P[]LYP]

I now know quite a lot about pin tumblars but simple bit i not quite sure on

I understand a fair bit now about pin tumbalr locks but one thing i havent grapsed is a simple bit really.Assume ive added some torque using a tension wrench and ive just entered the keyway of a .. pin wafer lock or disk tumblar (pins at top) and pushed a keypin up using a pick and managed to set the pin (i.e the driver is in hull and plug has bound next pin) why doesnt the keypin fall back down all the way to its orginal posistion (right at bottem) the MIT guide says this is what the pin should do i think. The pin does slide a little way down but not that much. Does this happen becuse the spring force is not acting on in? the plug has roated a bit so gravity cant pull it right down? or there is a larger friction force.

part 2: just to clarify is a disk tumblar or wafer lock just a pin tumblar that has holes in the pins? and how does this change the mechanism of the lock?

Does any1 no any articles on warded locks becuse the MIT guide hasent got them in and i dont no any more sources that may have these in

thx a lot Simon



thx a lot Simon

[Bitter Man]

Well the key pin should fall back down. Its possible you're over raising the pin. If this happens and youre still successful at picking the lock, its possible that the jostling you put the lock through jiggles everything enough for the keypins you over raised to come back down.

Wafer locks work on a differenr principle entirely than the pin tumbler. There is one wafer instead of a stack of two pins. If a wafer is raised to just the right height, it will fit exactly inside the plug of the lock. If it is over raised or under raised, the top or bottom of the wafter will protrude past the top or bottom of the plug and into the housing, preventing the lock from turning. When the correct key is inserted, the wafers all hang inside the valleys of the key.

Warded locks are really simple so the MIT guide doesnt really talk about them. Look in The Complete Guide to Lockpicking by Eddie the Wire for a good description. Its hard to put into words.

[P[]LYP]

thx a lot bitterman, have you got a link to that bit at the bottem?

how can you overraise pins? you need to push them far enough to get to the sheer line and if you oush them t far they will get jammed in the hull?

[Varjeal]

Over raising pins is one of the most common things done when picking a lock. Raising the bottom pin too high pushes it past the shearline, blocking the plug from turning.

Not raising the bottom pin high enough leaves the top or driver pin blocking the shearline and causing the same problem.

You can tell if you've successfully picked a particular pin stack (unless a mushroom/spool pin is giving you trouble) if the bottom pin has no spring pressure on it. You should be able to feel the difference with your pick.

Hope that helps.

[Bitter Man]

I dont know where to find an E-book version of that book, but I'm gonna have a go at explaining a warded lock. When you first insert the key to a warded lock, (the actual key, not a pick) you insert it into an empty passage. There is nothing on the top or bottom of the pick. Now, on either side of that little passage way there are these metal disks, spaced at different intervals and of different sizes like this:

lll ll lllll lll lll

Now, the correct key has chunks of it cut out where there are disks. The correct key to that particular lock would look something like this:

llll ll ll ll

Now, since the chunks are cut out of the keys, the key can rotate under the solid disks wihtout running into them and jamming. The incorrect key will have an uncut part of the key at the same place as a disk, so when the key tries to turn, it hits the disk and stops.

The lock mechanism itself is at the very rear of the lock. Instead of metal disks, there is a bolt work that when its pushed in, the piece of metal that holdes the shackle down retracts and lets the shackle come out. Warded locks either have 2 bolts on opposite sides of the cylander, or 4 bolts, 2 on each side (thus the existance of the picks with 1 spike on each side and 2 on each side).

Now the picks that bypass this mechanism are very simple. The only thing that would keep a pick from turning the cylander is the pick running into those metal disks. The warded picks are cut think enough so that the entire key acts like 1 big chunk cut out, bypassing all the metal disks in the process. The spikes on the end operate the boltwork that opens the lock. Its that simple :-D.

oh btw: those metal disks are called "wards" thus the name warded padlock.

[Bitter Man]

Now that I look at it, the spacing in the font used when typing out your message is different than the font used when its displayed, so those little diagrams of the key and the wards will be off quite a bit.

[Varjeal]

Bitter Man: Good description though, I was just about to have at describing that. Nice work.