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Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby fgarci03 » 23 Nov 2013 20:58

Oversetting is a big problem. Many of us can't help it, and it's a headache to fix without reseting everything.
Especially if you are picking a lock with security keypins, such as serrated or torpedo shaped keypins. If they are caught overset, It's very difficult (sometimes impossible) to fix it.

But you can avoid these situations! :twisted:


I was lucky to find a way to do it. First I will share how I do not overset, and then how to try and fix in case you do.
None of this is new! Actually, if you apply the correct technique the books teach, you should do fine. But almost no book focus this in detail. I will try to.


So it all comes down to how you set a pin.
Setting a pin isn't just lifting it while applying tension. This is where the others fail...
Setting a pin is actually a very complex process, that requires practice to master.

Also, light, medium or hard tension are subjective, and aren't proporcional to your rate of success (unless you break your tools, so lighten up your hands ok? :mrgreen:)

In order to lift a pin, you have to find a perfect balance between Tension Force and Lifting Force. The concepts are very important!

No matter how much or how little tension you apply, there is a lifting force that allows the pin to be lifted. And a very small window of oportunity to set it correctly.

Let's give it a go. Take a lock (preferably a lock you are conforable picking) and apply no tension at all to it. Use a pick to lift the pins and feel the force it takes to lift them. After that, apply harder tension and find the binding pin (when I say hard tension I don't mean break your wrench in there!). DO NOT lift the binding pin yet!

After you place your pick under the binding pin apply just a little bit of lifting force. It won't budge right?
Now slowly start reducing the tension force untill it starts to lift.

STOP EVERYTHING!
This is what all the books say. And it's absolutely correct!
Now comes the part where you learn how to not overset a pin.

As you noticed, the lifting force is proporcional to the amount of tension provided to the lock. You have to practice REALLY hard how to achieve this balance and mantain it on every situation.


In order to understand this, lift the pin untill it sets. After it sets, continue applying the exact same amount of tension and lifting force to the pin.
It won't overset!

This happens because, uppon a setting, the plug rotates just a fraction, and the lifting force isn't enough to make it go backwards again so the pin can go higher. If you mantain this balance, it's virtually impossible to overset a pin, as there isn't enough force to do it.

This is true for light or hard tension. You just need that perfect balance.
Now if you reduce tension or increase the lifting force it will overset. But you have a window there. With practice you will learn that window and be within it's limits without thinking about it.

A good way to practice is to do this exercise many times, with variable tension. And vary the tension and lifting force WHILE lifting, so you can get a sense of coordination doing it.



Yeah cool but... How do I fix an overset?

Well, for starters, you have to know it doesn't allways work!
And the method is what you are already thinking! Let go a little tension and allow the pin to fall down. If done correctly, when the pin passes the sheerline again, the plug should rotate that tiny little bit, not allowing it to reset completely. It's normal to drop a few other pins in the process. Don't worry about it and just practice.

The trick is just to find the right amount of tension to let go.
In order to practice, you should use a lock you are confortable with and pick most of it. Then, bounce the tension a little without droping any pins. Keep doing it, getting bolder and bolder untill you find that perfect spot; and are able to do it fast.

After that, try real oversets. Reset them. And try to do it faster and faster.
Being fast is not important. But when you practice doing it very fast, you actaully develop the precision needed to do it slowly. The faster you can do it, the more accurate it will be after.



As you can see, I didn't add any new information to whatever books you have read. But I tried to focus something that I don't see much, as it has helped me countless times.

Have fun!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby xylac » 24 Nov 2013 22:30

Great advice!

Sometimes I'm able to feel when I've overset a pin. There's often a tiny bit of counter-rotation, and occasionally I can hear the other (correctly set) pins dropping down.

Another way I can tell if I've overset a pin is by slowly releasing the tension. It sounds something like (click........clickclickclickclick), where you hear one pin drop down, followed by a pause, followed by all the pins dropping down. When this happens, the first click is generally from the driver pin of the overset pin stack dropping down to the shear line. If I suspect I've overset a pin, sometimes I take off tension until I feel the first click, then continue picking from there. It doesn't always work, but it's easier than starting over every single time.
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby fgarci03 » 24 Nov 2013 22:53

Yes, a little bit of counter rotation may occur, but it's usually very very small and very hard too. Not the usual "wave" you get on a spool, for example.

Nice that you have the feeling to be able to drop just one pin! I took forever to be able to do it, and I still mess it up sometimes :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby mechanical_nightmare » 13 Dec 2013 6:10

Thank you for the detailed description, fgarci! As an intermediate noob, I find myself oversetting pins less and less nowadays. I think every lock picker will benefit from reading this post and doing the exercises you detailed.
If you do not manipulate the lock, then the lock will manipulate you
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby WillMclennan » 14 Dec 2013 17:55

Im glad iv read this because every other source says theirs nothing to to except release all tension! which was really confusing as a beginner... its not true:)
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby HerrMannelig » 21 Dec 2013 13:59

Nice guide!

fgarci03 wrote:Yeah cool but... How do I fix an overset?

Well, for starters, you have to know it doesn't allways work!
And the method is what you are already thinking! Let go a little tension and allow the pin to fall down. If done correctly, when the pin passes the sheerline again, the plug should rotate that tiny little bit, not allowing it to reset completely. It's normal to drop a few other pins in the process. Don't worry about it and just practice.

The trick is just to find the right amount of tension to let go.
In order to practice, you should use a lock you are confortable with and pick most of it. Then, bounce the tension a little without droping any pins. Keep doing it, getting bolder and bolder untill you find that perfect spot; and are able to do it fast.


I was looking for something posted about this, because I have reduced tension to drop overset pins while picking, and my most recent video includes this happening on the last binding pin, so the last act before opening the lock is reducing tension.

When I was learning this, I used my hook to feel the pins drop, so I could feel the difference between an overset pin being dropped and the driver binding, and everything coming down.

This is a very important thing to learn for raking "better" locks, as oversets can be common, but often, even tricky bittings can be raked with proper tension control.
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby fgarci03 » 23 Dec 2013 7:57

Thank you guys!

@HM: Totally agree with you on the raking! Although I'm not as good raker as I would want to, I found that for raking, tension control (as in adjustig the tension to what is happening) is the most important part of it, not just the "light tension".

When I say this, I don't mean heavy tension! What I mean is different levels of light tension, as opposed to just keep the wrench steady at a specific light level of tension.
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby capt.dunc » 5 Jan 2014 8:23

i often find that if you've got an overset pin which you want to drop, if you tap the pin while easing off the tension, then you've a better chance of it dropping first and leaving other pins set. it's down to both, imperfections in the chamber shapes and the difference between the coefficients of static and kinetic friction.
a tidy locksmith, picks, up his rubish
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby teamstarlet » 28 Jan 2014 9:46

This is great! Thanks for sharing :)
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby KPick » 28 Jan 2014 15:54

I'm good at doing this. Very useful specially when dealing with american locks. Oh god how much those things give me a headache lol. :lol:
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby Divinorum » 28 Jan 2014 19:30

KPick wrote:I'm good at doing this. Very useful specially when dealing with american locks. Oh god how much those things give me a headache lol. :lol:


Glad I'm not the only one that gets a headache from those locks :lol:
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby Josh___ » 4 Mar 2014 16:38

Thanks for the advice. I've always had an issue with oversetting, but lower tension and lifting force (in proportion to each other) has really helped.
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby sterry20 » 9 Mar 2014 8:39

does this work on you more expensive locks like medco or say a 7 pin best i have a lock i cant pick so i dont know whats in it yet maybe ill just try rakeing it for.
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby sterry20 » 9 Mar 2014 8:42

if you have the key try taking out the pins and puting them in one at a time in the right order of course this i find good to practice on getting better and adding more pinsone at a time till you can do all 7
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Re: Oversetting pins? How NOT to do it!

Postby Erlstn » 5 Apr 2014 12:07

Good info here...I am fairly new and am trying to learn on a very difficult Papaiz lock that has spools...I am convinced that I am oversetting some of these and this info will help when I get back into it tonight. Thanks Again!
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