mult-t-lock picking

[bhamoggy]

have seen a pick on youtube being used to open multilock.
demonstrated by a chinese person.

looks like it does classic but doubt it can do side pins too.

anyone got one and verify if its any good and if so, where they can be purchased

[Wolf2486]

A relatively cheap version can be found on http://www.dealextremes.com under lock pick tools... never had experience with them though.

[Squelchtone]

A relatively cheap version can be found on http://www.dealextremes.com under lock pick tools... never had experience with them though.

without the s. http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.lock#829

I bought something there recently and it arrived in good shape and even though it took a couple weeks from China, the free shipping more than made up for the time. I did not get lockpick related stuff, so I cannot comment on thier quality, but there is a post here somewhere about that.

Squelchtone

[datagram]

This post has reviews, but I don't think anyone has reviewed the Mul-T lock tool from DX: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42947

[raimundo]

Very good first post bhamoguy, I would also like to know the answer to that question. Though there are many varients of the multilock, I have not encountered the lock with side pins, but I do believe Ive see those edge dimples on some keys.

[bhamoggy]

ok all,

i bought the tool from ukbumpkeys in the end.

the pick arrived for the classic 006 profile.
no attatchments to chande it to 005 or 115 so don't know about that yet.
however, ukbumpkeys aren't very obtainable, more than one business running and from home by the sounds of it. however, thats not really a gripe.

i loaded a key & key euro cylinder up and attempted to pick it.
pretty much no go after an hour or so.

so loaded one chamber up only, with a D pin and a no.5 internal

picked that ok so went to D5 in first chamber and A1 in 5th chamber.
picked them both in no time.
thought great! getting the feel of the pins now.
went to 3 chambers with D5 in first, A1 in last and B3 in third leaving 2 chambers blank.
after about an hour, i finally picked it.
tried it again and picked it much quicker.

at the moment i'm on 4 pins but it aint easy!!!

will let you know how i get on.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

[TheSkyer]

I bought the 9 hook set en KLOM Navigator set from Dealextreme. Both great value for they money!

You don't need both though as the KLOM set contains about the same amount of hooks and a diomond just like the 9 hook advanced set. I actualy gave my 9 hook set to my local locksmith to keep us on friendly terms

[locfoc]

I am an authorized mul-t-lock dealer and I'll explain the following. Mul-T-Lock is one of the quickest adapting high security lock companies on the market today. In fact I could say they are the quickest adapting.
They don't just leave their product on the market and say forget about it, like most of the others do, Mul-T-Lock quickly changes their product to block out bumping, picking, etc. Here's a brief over view of what they do. If your locksmith doesn't inform you of the changes, or they refuse to adapt with Mul-T-Lock that is the dealers fault, not MTL's. Hear me out.

Years ago when the classic was bumped open, they made their locks bump proof right away releasing the split - d pins now.
Any combination with a new D Pin inserted in it: when bumping it may result in a gap created only between the two halves of the split d plug pin rather then occurring between the plug and the body pins, as a result the sheer line remains secured for optimum bump resistance.

This is only half of their solution. The other halve was the interior of the spool drivers having serrated edges to lock with the interior pins. In the case of picking mul-t-lock with one of these fancy picks, even in the youtube video's, they pick the plug pins first and turn the cylinder 5 degree's this will lock the interior pin with the spool driver and it will never move. These split d pins have been out for more then 6 months now, I believe the interior pin and spool driver w/serrated interior has been around for over a year now. It's not even a question that people are picking old cylinders on youtube with these mul-t-lock picks.

But the new Abloy Protec arbor bit, man that thing chews up the cylinder so quick. poor Abloy is getting crunched there.

[JK_the_CJer]

I am an authorized mul-t-lock dealer and I'll explain the following. Mul-T-Lock is one of the quickest adapting high security lock companies on the market today. In fact I could say they are the quickest adapting.
They don't just leave their product on the market and say forget about it, like most of the others do, Mul-T-Lock quickly changes their product to block out bumping, picking, etc. Here's a brief over view of what they do. If your locksmith doesn't inform you of the changes, or they refuse to adapt with Mul-T-Lock that is the dealers fault, not MTL's. Hear me out.

Years ago when the classic was bumped open, they made their locks bump proof right away releasing the split - d pins now.
Any combination with a new D Pin inserted in it: when bumping it may result in a gap created only between the two halves of the split d plug pin rather then occurring between the plug and the body pins, as a result the sheer line remains secured for optimum bump resistance.

This is only half of their solution. The other halve was the interior of the spool drivers having serrated edges to lock with the interior pins. In the case of picking mul-t-lock with one of these fancy picks, even in the youtube video's, they pick the plug pins first and turn the cylinder 5 degree's this will lock the interior pin with the spool driver and it will never move. These split d pins have been out for more then 6 months now, I believe the interior pin and spool driver w/serrated interior has been around for over a year now. It's not even a question that people are picking old cylinders on youtube with these mul-t-lock picks.

But the new Abloy Protec arbor bit, man that thing chews up the cylinder so quick. poor Abloy is getting crunched there.

Would you mind posting a few images of these D pins? They sound familiar but I just can't place it and am not quite familiar with Mul-t-Lock terminology.

PS: You seem very enthusiastic about your product; you should offer a few of these brand-new-and-improved MTLs for super cheap here. Prepare to have your notions of security crushed

[locfoc]

I'll put some pics up later today, and I would love to see somebody pick my locks so then mul-t-lock can go ahead and continue to improve their product. Even Marc Webber Tobias says that Mul-t-lock rapidly changes and adapts their product to continue improvements to make it secure. And I could give you a mul-t-lock with side pins and or back pins and I promise you will never pick it or bump it, it would just be IMPOSSIBLE even by common physics laws. bumping a lock with a side pin it will push the side pin into the housing every time. Bumping has been defeated by mul-t-lock a long time ago. That is an option products like Medeco don't have. Thats what makes mul-t-lock so great.

Cheers.

And I will be glad to sell the community mul-t-locks with side pins, back pins, working keys. I have tons of them here in my personal collection. If you guys want to play around with the real good products.

[JK_the_CJer]

Unfortunately, I am not in a good position to take up your offer as I am taking a trip soon (more details to come). That said, I recommend separating picking and bumping in your mind (bumping being much more limited imho). I think its safe to say that most of the folks here don't care about about bumping too much. You described why the side and back pins may be bump-proof but never addressed picking them (while saying it cannot be done). Would you mind throwing up some pics of these side/back pins too? I've done quite a bit of digging, but the interweb says very little of them. I've always assumed they were just passive profile pins, but would love some clarification. Thanks

[locfoc]

yea they are passive, and yes there is a difference between picking and bumping; obviously different techniques but they attain the same result when applied correctly - an open lock.

The back pins and side pins are passive. Using the mul-t-lock pick being sold online for instance, when it slides into place it pushes the side pins in the housing and locks the cylinder up. Great success.

I have never seen anybody pick a mul-t-lock that I have pinned. And I've been selling them for 5-6 years now.
I have seen videos online but they don't prove anything, the lock could have 4 empty chambers.

Again, somebody picking a mul-t-lock with regular picks doesn't make sense. The picks they sell don't adapt to the idea of side pins in the lock. I suppose custom modifications could be made to the tool, if you know what is required of it but the thing is you are still dealing with 10 pins that have been redesigned to interlock with eachother when there is tension, and most of the top drivers are spool drivers, and the D and C plug pins are all mushroomed in my kit. It's really not easy to deal with telescopic mushroom pins that interlock if there is the slightest hint of tension, and we all know you need stronger then normal tension to pick a mul-t-lock because of the telescopic pins, to hold them in place. See the idea of being easily picked has been defeated. Like I said earlier, I have never seen anybody open a mul-t-lock I have pinned myself. Only the ones they pin and show on a video with who knows what old pins are in there. Probably ones from 10 years ago taken out of an old classic 052, or 006 cylinder. the straight sided pins, no serrated edges, no mushrooming, no interlocking function. It's not amazing for somebody to slide the old pins into a new interactive lock and claim success.
The real success is to pick a lock I pin myself, then I'll admit I'm wrong.

[locfoc]

You can even watch the video's of mul-t-locks being picked look at how much tension they are using. You know for a fact from picking spool pin padlocks how you need to feather your tension to get the pins up into the chamber, you get to the point where you almost release your tension all together, on an abus padlock for instance. Two mushroom pins in there. i've picked those a thousand times.. There is no way anybody can pick a mul-t-lock with mushroom pins with that tension, it just is not possible and you know it. It isn't automatically magic just because they have a special mul-t-lock pick. It doesn't turn the mushroom pins into regular pins, so why the belief that such a great amount of tension will allow a mushroom pin into a chamber? I have very high levels of doubt through education and facts. Not just a theory.

I have tried to pick the new mul-t-locks, I have tried bumping them, I even re-formatted a key blank with no interactive pin, I popped out the pin, tapped the hole and put a screw in it, then I shaved the screw tips off with a dremel and a bench grinder, and I had a completely flat blank, which I then proceeded to cut D5's across all 5 points. I have the perfect bump key here, it does not work.. and we all know the interactive chamber is no different then any other chamber in the lock, the only difference is the key you slide in. So I went with the theory of all d5 cuts to open any version of interactive lock.

Doesn't work.

[JK_the_CJer]

Thanks for clearing up the passive sidepins/backpins question. Maybe I take it for granted when I assume that a focused lockpicker would take the time to Dremel away all of the potential passive pin positions on his/her H&M-style MTL pick (though this tool is not the only option). Also, feather-light tension is not the only way to overcome security pins (including MTL). I certainly agree that they make some hard locks (my experiences with their serrated drivers have taught that much), but impossible? No way!

[locfoc]

If somebody can pick the lock in front of me I'd let them keep it.