Picking High-Low combinations on locks.

[qwerty125]

This is a newb question but I was interested in knowing the answer to it since I couldn't achieve opening this lock.

I found an old lock laying around in the house and my parents have accumulated a enormous amount of keys (office, previous store keys, etc.) So I tried each key and found one that opened the lock. I took a crack at it first with my jacknife set and couldnt get it open. So what I typically do is pull the plug out and try to pick the lock with only 2 pins and then 3 and then 4 and so on. However, I can't get past my 3rd pin and so heres where the question starts.

So right now I'm working with the last 3 out of 5 pins.
The 4th and 5th pin will not hit the shear line unless I lift it up really high.
However, the 3rd pin (which would be the first one since 1 and 2 aren't in the plug) only needs a very small push for it to hit the shear line. So if I start from the back and put tension on the wrench and lift the 5th then it also sets the 3rd in place but the problem is in order for me to connect the 5th I end up pushing the 3rd up too high and it goes above the shear line.
So I tried starting from the front, once I connect the 3rd pin and I try to push up the 4th and 5th pin it feels like I've pushed the 3rd pin up above the shear line (forcefully that is).
So in these kinds of situations what am I suppose to do? because of the narrow key way my pick tools are already elevated after I insert the tension wrench. Plus it's fustrating that the lock isn't set in place like a door so I'm actually holding the lock and trying to pick it... maybe I'm not steady enough?

[digital_blue]

Everybody's different as far as holding the lock or having it mounted. I prefer to pick "in hands". As for what you can do for your particular problem, you may try with a slightly deeper hook. With a tight keyway, however, this can be its own challenge too. This is precisely why an extreme high/low pinning makes a lock so much harder to pick. A high/low on a weiser with a keyway the size of a small Volkswaggon isn't too bad because there's plenty of room for a deeper hook. But ask cracksman what happens when you get an extreme high/low on something like... oh.... I don't know... maybe an American padlock cylinder....

db

[wtf|pickproof?]

db, are you still traumatized from the locksharing experience?

[qwerty125]

Well, I guess that brings me to my next question. I've been able to pick some other locks that we've used looooong time ago.. No label, no brand. I got those open with no effort...
In hopes of not sounding like an idiot.. If high low combinations makes picking locks that much harder... why not just save the trouble and make all of them with high low combinations to keep out ameuter lock pickers out? (This is just a side question, I really want an answer for the first post though .. )

[treboR]

why not just save the trouble and make all of them with high low combinations to keep out ameuter lock pickers out? (This is just a side question, I really want an answer for the first post though .. )

That would greatly reduce the number of key combinations.

[qwerty125]

ah which would mean that would increase the possibility of a duplicate key within the area.

Is there any particular advice in picking high low combination locks? I've had soo much trouble with it that I don't want to give it up (that might sound wierd).. its like all the time I wasted on it pissed me off.. I HAVE to open this one.. I actually broke it the first time so what I did was take out the core with the pins still inside and transfered it to another plug lol... I'm gonna hold on to this forever until I pick it.. and when I do.. thats when the world will end and I will triumph ...... j/k
I'm gonna keep at it though.. If I break this lock, I'm gonna find another spare and transfer over the parts... so to save my sanity, anyone have any advice?

[wtf|pickproof?]

As db put it:

... you may try with a slightly deeper hook. With a tight keyway, however, this can be its own challenge too. ...

Might be the right time to start pick making. I'd try to go with a Falle deep hook design. Peterson reach might be another option, as are progressive curved designs. Another possiibility might be the Southord "long hook". But basically it's up to you.

[digital_blue]

I'd try to go with a Falle deep hook design.

I'm sure that wtf is referring to the Falle-Safe Deep Curve picks. I've made a number of replicas of these picks and they have their moments, but I would not agree that this is one of them. But the Falle-Safe Progressive Curve picks are probably a good fit.

You can see some picks of my replicas here (down near the bottom):
viewtopic.php?t=7327&start=0

7th from the top on the right hand might be something like I'd have in mind. Might be of some help. Good luck qwerty.

[wtf|pickproof?]

Youre right db. Never saw that falle replicas of yours before. They look good! Please keep us updated how the perform against your originals. (As soon as you hold them in your hands:wink:)

[qwerty125]

ah.. i should have mentioned that I was using a deep curve hook. I'm gonna keep at it though... its a segal brand lock... never heard of it.. hopefully by next week youl'l see this thread back on top with me saying I GOT IT OPEN!!

[Chucklz]

Segal made (makes?) some nice old hardware. I've seen quite old stuff still functional after many decades. Unfortunately, I have no idea on pick resistance.

[n2oah]

I think the Peterson reach is better than the Falle deep-curves

[digital_blue]

I think the Peterson reach is better than the Falle deep-curves

Isn't that like saying that a knife is better than a fork?

db

[skold]

I think the Peterson reach is better than the Falle deep-curves

Isn't that like saying that a knife is better than a fork?

db

Yes.

[Ben WV]

What's helpful if you don't have a deeper hook at the moment is to aproach the pin from the backside to lift it. Just run the pick gently across the underside of each pinstack so you don't move anything sticking it in and count the bumps as you go. When you actually pass the last pinstack, increase the torque and pull the peak of your pick directly under the low point of the last pinstack from the backside. Then experiment with pivoting on a ward at the front of the keyway versus putting your index finder under the pick shank and lifting it. Ive found this technique helpful for lifting a high/low combo when your pick isn't quite as deep as you'd like.