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by Engineer » 26 Dec 2008 11:43
I think I might have found a solution to making keys from the moulds, without distorting the impressions due to heat. http://shapelock.com/page4.htmlYou get a plastic that is like nylon, but melts in hot (not boiling) water. It should be good enough for tempory keys and is reuseable as well. Has anyone used this stuff before? Only it's new to me.
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by raimundo » 28 Dec 2008 12:44
with a weak key material, its often better to use the plastic or whatever to make a copy of the profile of the key on a key machine in brass blank stock and even then, be careful when dogging down the vice on the plastic blank and guide the cutter by hand over the profile, its not necessary cut absolutely to the line, Close really counts for a lot if you know a bit about impressioning, Just avoid cutting too deep. this is more controlled than the situation you might have if your weak key breaks off in the keyway.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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by tacedeous » 28 Dec 2008 20:54
hmmm i didnt think plactic was really an option, as an avid DIY'ER ive used a product called ALUMILITE, which is a two part (like epoxys) plastic moulding material http://www.alumilite.com/ProdDetail.cfm?Category=Starter%20Kits&Name=Mini%20Casting%20Kitthis stuff is awsome ive used in meny ways... its non conductive, seals to waterproof electronics etc hard in 3 minutes. then one could duplicate.... how do you guys think it would work?
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by Safety0ff » 29 Dec 2008 0:03
Yea that stuff is pretty good, I haven't tried to use it to make a key out of though.
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by Engineer » 29 Dec 2008 20:36
Nylon 6,6 is a perfectly strong enough engineering polymer for a temporary key. Only the very narowest keyways, with deep cuts and and stiff mechanism might break it on the first turn. Shapelock is supposed to be similar to Nylon, but "similar" is not "identical". So I've no idea if it will really work as a temporary key or not, until I get my hands on some. I am hoping it will work, as it has the distinct advantage of a very low melting point and being reuseable. The biggest problems with it, might be getting it to fill the mould in the first place and a very slight possibility of shrinkage as it cools.
Raimundo is right about copying the key, if you are going to need the key to work more than once or twice at most, then you will need to copy the cast key to a blank. It should be purely a one-use emergency key, so you can get a proper one cut.
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by nostromo » 9 Feb 2009 23:42
Perhaps there's anpthjer method, one involving fewer steps? The goal is to end up with something from which you can make a usable key. The soft metal casting seems to take additional tools, supplies and effort.
How about taking a micrometer or dial caliper to measure the depths and spacing of the cuts impressed into the play dough, compare the impression to key catalogs to get the keyway, then cut a final key by code? This was the method used in a recent criminal investigation in the Gulf Coast when officers had very brief access to keys (they had a warrant, btw). Wasn't play-dough used, though, I think it was chewing gum.
Once the keyway is known, you can verify depth and spacing dimensions to charts, known keys or depth keys if you want to. As you would with a cast key.
If you don't have access to a code cutter, or depth keys and a cutting machine, you can file to just above the needed depth and impression it from there.
Just a thought.
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by datagram » 10 Feb 2009 0:42
But if that is your plan, you might as well just use the micrometer on the key itself to decode the depths and forgo the impressioning process. You wouldn't have to worry about getting a proper impressiong, removing the key from the mold, having to worry about shrinkage, etc.
dg
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by Engineer » 16 Feb 2009 13:31
Well, I have playing with some Shapelock as promised and although it's great material, there's no way it is suitable sadly. Firstly, it is strong enough alright. It is quite like Nylon 6,6 and would make a great temporary key. The problem is what I was afraid of; when it's melted, it is still too viscous to pour into a key mould. Hot water may be hot enough to melt it, but you are going to need an auful lot of it. It absobs quite a lot of thermal energy to soften it. I placed a plastic top from an aerosol in a small bowl of boiling water. I put approx 1 tablespoon of granules in the top and slowly stirred. Only the granules around the edge softened...slightly. I microwaved the bowl of water again and tried again. Still almost no melting at all. In desperation, I put the granules in the microwave oven (with the bowl of water to provide some "loading", otherwise the radio waves are not absobed enough by small quantities and they bounce back into the magnetron and damage your oven). To my suprise, the Shapelock DID absorb microwaves slightly and took two minutes with the bowl of water to melt. It changed from white granules to crystal clear. I ended up plunging the blob of semi-softened Shapelock into the boiling water to soften it properly though. It has a texture like children's modelling clay, albeit very HOT clay. Suprisingly it remains quite mouldable even when it has lost a lot of heat. I made a test shape and left it to cool. When cold it turns back into a pearl-white colour. It could probably make excelent handles for picks and I'm looking around for other uses for it, as it does seem great fun. However there seemed no chance of it ever getting soft enough to pour into a mould for a key - Sorry. 

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by locksmurf » 7 Mar 2009 20:27
I like the direction this topic is taking. Here's my low-budget take on it: I found some info about some types of silicone-caulk that become self-hardening with a few drops of glycerine and you add some acrylic paint as a color indicator of mixing (in my experience only the cheapest kinds of caulk work, the 2 dollar/euro vinegar smelling types). I just spread it over the halves of the clam and then screw them together tight so I get a silicone key as a result.    Then I make a cylindrical container out of gaffer tape, pour some plaster in it and make a cast of the silicone key, which can be pulled out of the plaster with no problem being strong and flexible. I then scrape the bottom of the plaster cast untill there's a small opening at the bottom (an air vent), put it in sand and pour molten tin into it to get a key, but the plaster should also withstand pouring bronze (if I had the ability to melt it).
Did you try smurfing it?
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by locksmurf » 7 Mar 2009 20:35
Oh.. p.s.: I used fimo clay for the impressioning with corn starch as a separator and hardened it by heating.
Did you try smurfing it?
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by Engineer » 7 Mar 2009 20:58
That's quite an interesting process you have got going there LockSmurf! when you say you use tin though, do you mean real, pure tin (which is very expensive), or one of the other tin-like "white metal" alloys that are used for casting figures?
Good posts - Thank you for those thoughts. I used the low-orour bathroom sealant in my kitchen and don't like it at all. It took days to dry as it seems to produce water as it cures, not vinegar. In future, I'm only using the cheap vinegar-smelling sealant, even for sealing my bathroom, it seemed better!
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by locksmurf » 7 Mar 2009 21:33
I get my tin from recycle/2nd hand stores, where I find damaged tin beakers or plates, very cheap. They have markings of either 95% or sometimes 100% tin, although I've read there's been a lot of cheating about the amount of lead and zinc in the past; I bet I've been sniffing a lot of fumes in the process.
Did you try smurfing it?
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by n2oah » 8 Mar 2009 1:44
tacedeous wrote:hmmm i didnt think plactic was really an option, as an avid DIY'ER ive used a product called ALUMILITE, which is a two part (like epoxys) plastic moulding material http://www.alumilite.com/ProdDetail.cfm?Category=Starter%20Kits&Name=Mini%20Casting%20Kitthis stuff is awsome ive used in meny ways... its non conductive, seals to waterproof electronics etc hard in 3 minutes. then one could duplicate.... how do you guys think it would work?
I saw Alumilite while shopping at hobby lobby a few days ago. It has potential for key casting, but I don't have any more to spare at the moment for a kit.
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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by Engineer » 8 Mar 2009 9:00
Locksmurf, that is an EXCELENT way of getting tin. I'm in the UK and don't remember seeing any for sale that way. It could be that people salvage it for the price it fetches as scrap metal before I even get to see it, or it could just be that I've not been looking in the right places Either way I will keep an eye open for tin that way now and hope I can find some as it is very good for casting. Incidentally, I've done a load of lead casting in the past (weights for train models, etc) and I know casting your own fishing weights was very popular at one time, so if the risk was desperately high from lead fumes, then I would have thought we would have heard more about it by now? I've posted on here before about cutting keys releasing lead and while I fully accept it is quite dangerous, I'm not sure it is quite so dangerous as we seem to fear. Only last week I was reading about how VERY, VERY dangerous mercury is. The article made it sound like the tinest ammount would kill. I have used mercury, even played with it as a kid - My physics lecturer used to tell tremendous "horror" stories about playing with it in his hands and so on. I think lead (being another of the heavy metals like mercury) will be much the same. I suppose my own thoughts on it are to NOT take any unneccessary risks though, as it is a cumulative poison - The more you are exposed to it over your life, the greater your chances of problems developing. Just because it has not effected you today, it doesn't mean it won't later in your life. However, unless you are working with it eight hours a day, then I will not loose any sleep over it either. Well, that's my feelings about it - Be careful certainly, but don't get spooked by some of the more alarmist things you might read, occasional hobby exposure seems a lot less risky than working with something 8 hours a day.

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by 5thcorps » 8 Mar 2009 13:24
to cast temporary moulds in the past I have used storm window and screen frames (not the actual glass surronds but the channelwork that they slide up and down in). I cut it up, put it into a ceramic bucket I made, then place it in the very center of a good dry wood burning camp fire. In about an hour with a pair of welding gloves I can pour it right inot the mould. Have never tried it with a key though. I always used it to make throttle linkage parts and servo levers as well as a couple of bearing housings.
"Save the whales, Trade them in for valuable prizes."
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