Making an unpickable Lock

by **HeadHunterCEO** » 15 Feb 2005 19:56

split cylinders purpose is deception
If i did it to a yale

by **NKT** » 15 Feb 2005 20:10

How would you stop me pulling the front bit of the plug out?

I'm holding a Yale now, and I can't see a way that would be simple. Perhaps tapping a grub screw in and cutting another groove? But then you need a gap in the pins, so the deception wouldn't last long...

by **HeadHunterCEO** » 15 Feb 2005 20:19

NKT wrote:How would you stop me pulling the front bit of the plug out?

I'm holding a Yale now, and I can't see a way that would be simple. Perhaps tapping a grub screw in and cutting another groove? But then you need a gap in the pins, so the deception wouldn't last long...

thats how i did it with a kwickset in 20 minutes one night last summer
it was shoddy

by **NKT** » 18 Feb 2005 10:36

Something else that greatly slows picking is good tolerance between the cylinder and the case.

A really tight, nasty keyway is one of the best defences against picking or raking as if you can't get in there, you can't push the pins...

Doesn't stop fake keys, though.

by **smackjack** » 24 Feb 2005 16:19

you could make a lock with no combo or key hole, but once it's locked, it's locked forever!

by **mcm757207** » 24 Feb 2005 16:48

smackjack wrote:you could make a lock with no combo or key hole, but once it's locked, it's locked forever!

That kinda defeats the purpose of a lock if you can't open it.

by **Dent** » 25 Feb 2005 2:55

I know this is going to sound very newbie-ish but I came up with a design of lock that uses mech. pin type, but in a different way.

It may have been done before or is techincally infeasible for some reason unkown to me, but rather then post it on open forum, could anyone PM me who has great knowledge of wacko lock designs?

by **mcm757207** » 25 Feb 2005 10:09

Just post it here, there's nothing wrong with posting how any kind of lock works in the open furum, it's just when we get into bypassing or defeating high security locks or safes/vaults or quick bypass of popular locks/automotive stuff etc., that we tend to keep it to the advanced forums.

by **gnoff** » 25 Feb 2005 19:57

no clue what its called, but on a visit to ukraine, this guys house that i stayed at had a very weird lock on it...

the key was a rod about 1in in diameter, and about 6in long. it had about 30ish bumps all around it, varing in depth. the end was also notched, with a cut that allowed you to turn it.
you would stick the key it, and then turn it of course... the notches/bumps prevented other keys from opening the lock.

no clue how it worked, mechanically, but it looked awsome, and i wouldnt know how on earth to pick it. that would be like 30 different pins

by **dry132** » 26 Feb 2005 1:05

Hey guys,

I was just in my local Wal-Mart here in the US, and saw something which reminded me of this thread. There was a "safe box" about the size of a shoe box, roughly 1" thick steel around it, and had the weirdest looking key. It was as if you took four keys and layed them back to back to back to back to form a cross, with the tumbler-pusher parts facing outwards. The key apparently inserted directly into a cross-shaped hole with four sets of tumblers. Each 'leg' of the key was cut differently, so it also mattered which way the key was inserted into the cross.

I think somebody mentioned this cross-type design on here earlier, so I just wanted to post that I had by chance run across a real implementation of it, for only $50 USD. It was made by Sentry brand, model V120. Link: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... id=3266151

Probably not very secure, but interesting design.

by **digital_blue** » 26 Feb 2005 1:06

I don't know about anything with a key that large, but I wonder if the principle would be the same as this lock?

This is an Abloy Disklock Pro and the key has various angles cut which turn disks to line up gates on the disks (much like a combo lock works) and allows a sidebar to enter into the gates, thus allowing the plug to spin. It has 11 disks in total. I don't think I'd want to meet one of these in a dark alley.

db

by **dry132** » 26 Feb 2005 2:15

Hmm the lock looked more like a standardish key. Not as big as 4 keys put together, but about the same diameter as a typical tubular key, just in a cross shape instead of a circle.

Now that key you posted looks almost like a warded key? What principle does it work on..

by **Dent** » 26 Feb 2005 3:04

btw, after modeling a lock by my design, I found it had some structeral design problems that I hadn't forseen...

So anyway, scratch my post about the unpickable lock.

It had to do with isolating the pins, but proved to be a little unworkable in 3d space.

by **digital_blue** » 26 Feb 2005 17:13

I'm not sure why the picture link i posted there stopped working (it was working, honest!) but if you want to see it, you can right click the dead link, select properties, and copy paste the address for the pic into your address bar.

Anyway dry, I was actually comparing this lock to the one described by gnoff. I guess your post slipped in there while I was preparing it.

As for how the lock works, the angled cuts don't function like wards at all, but rather serve to rotate the disks inside the lock into position. Each disk hs at least one gate cut into it (more if it is master keyed). When the disks are all rotated with the gates aligned the lock can open. It is very much similar to the way a combonation lock works. PM me if this is not clear and you would like more details.

db

by **digital_blue** » 26 Feb 2005 17:13

Interesting... when I went back to view the post, the picture link was active again... whatever.

Making an unpickable Lock

Cross-Key lock at Walmart

Hmm.

Who is online