My home made barrel key collection (& how to)

[Lauren]

Well, I can finally say that I have mastered the ability to make and correctly cut keys for classic double bit locks (6 & 8 lever). I noticed that on some of my earlier project locks of this type that the key would only work counter-clockwise, rotating just enough to open the lock (aprox. 30 degrees). As it turn out, the keys should rotate clockwise and counter clockwise expanding the lever stack at its maximum point, which is at the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock (level with the horizon) position. So, in the the past I was doing it all wrong with my early locks . This is primarily due to not cutting the key deep enough and having the key blades machined too thick.

Yesterday, I re-examined my old, rusty 8-Lever "Mastodon" lock made by Eagle Lock Co.. I machined a new key blank from 1/4 by 1 inch cold steel stock, making the key as thin as I could without compromising strength. At first, the key only worked with one full rotation, and then I would have to reverse the rotation back the other way to cycle the key. This was due to the fact that the key was not cut deep enough on one side. Even mirrored deep cuts on both bits is important to making a good operating key.

Here's the spec's for making these keys (inches): Center pin hole= 11/64", blade thickness=.085, total blade height=.715, blade width=.375, shaft diameter=.235

[Lauren]

If your thinking this is just another post about one of my newest "Miller" Champion push key padlocks, you would be slightly off. I got this lock for $22.00 and found it to be in somewhat good condition on the outside, but the lever stack was completely frozen; most likely from lack of use and dirt. This lock was received in virgin condition in one sense, simply because there was no evidence of a locksmith/ collector like my probing it. To fix the frozen lever stack problem, I applied some acetone and then some oil. But I soon learned that this lever stack had tolerances so tight, that there was little hope for decoding each lever by method of going between levers.

I tried revising my approach to decoding my lock, and if proven correct, it would be a much faster method, and it would also mean that I had spent way too much time on past project locks of this type. My concept was rather simple. I took a needle from my contour gauge tool (this is tool sold at most hardware stores for making impressions of moldings for example). I like this material for its strength and its ability to be bent without breaking. Anyway, I bent the needle into a basic 'Z' shape, and I was careful in making the probing end no thicker then the thickness of a lever. Also, I wanted the inside bend of the probe to be a sharp ninety degrees, so I filed it square. It's typical to get a slight rounded geometry anytime wire is bent. Rather then going between levers, I decided to press the probe on top of a neighboring lever and then turn the probe ninety degrees once the gate of the lever being probed was located. For example, to probe lever 1, I pressed the probe on to lever 2. And to probe lever 6, I pressed the probe on to lever 5. To probe lever 2, I pressed the probe on to lever 1. And for lever 3, I pressed the probe on to lever 2. For lever 4, I pressed the probe on to lever 3. Finally, for lever 5, I pressed the probe on to lever 4. Once the gate of each lever was located, the lever that I pressed on to would pinch the probe in position. Therefore, I had to insert another wire on the lever that I used to make entry to release my probing wire. This is where it can get tricking, but the probe will release with this approach. Once the levers were each probed, I used the same technique to measure the inside point of the gates relative to each other as discussed in earlier sections of this thread.

One major conclusion to this method besides the time savings, is it will most likely work better on lever stacks with tight tolerances. A tight lever stack aids in holding the probe more precisely. I was able to probe out my latest lock by the forth test (3 prior test failed). Also, this method works well with keys that don't have deep depth cuts. Deeper depth cuts translate into less access for the probe. The levers can only be pressed inward so much, and the window of the gate becomes less visible with deeper depth cut keys.

[Lauren]

I have been looking to purchase a Yale pancake lock for some time. It just seemed that sellers were asking too much. I managed to get this one without a key (Yes!!!) for $20.00. The price was right, and therefore, I usually question buyers who sell things cheap. Will it work, and is there unseen mechanical damage is what I think to my self. If you remember from my last post, I managed to get a lock that wasn't locksmith tampered. Well, this one was. Upon probing the levers I found a broke piece of a pick inside. No worries, I managed to remove it easily. Boy, there's always something when someone sells something cheap.

My understanding is that "Miller Lock Company" sold out to Yale in the late 1920's, but that doesn't exactly mean that's how old my lock is. I'll have to some more research on the manufacturing date. My lock is marked "66" on the hasp and "07" on the body and is considered a high shackle. This lock is smaller the basic "Champion" version, measuring 2 inches in diameter and is a 5 lever, not a 6 lever.

I was all prepared to have to do some serious probing to open and decode my Yale lock, but I always try simple methods first, which allowed me to open this lock in under a minute. I merely tied a rope around the hasp and looped it under my foot while picking each lever. This lock has a lot of slop between the levers. Although my lock has a nice spring action to the hasp, it kind of feels like a cheaper version of something better. The "Champion" style is definitely more secure and harder to manipulate.

I used my "Champion" decoder to decode the lock, leaving one pin high after the lock was picked open. Overall, its a nice little lock. But I'm not terrible excited about it. Some collectors just go crazy over anything "Yale". Some time in the future I may try other techniques to decode this lock like I do on the "Champion" models using wire probes, if it even will work due to the geometry of the gate cuts on the levers. I will definitely be making a working key soon.

[Lauren]

I have always been fascinated by push key type antique padlocks ever since I have been a collector. Recently, I obtained a really small design made by Romer and Company of Newark, New Jersey. These locks do not show up on internet auction sites very often and to win one will probably cost $35.00 or more. Naturally, my lock was received in the locked position and without a key.

Upon receipt of my lock, I was all prepared to be disappointed, thinking it was broken. This lock has little signs of wear, but being such a small lock the application would have been rather limited anyway. Furthermore, this lock uses a flat key that is .035 inch thick, and therefore, made the key vulnerable to breaking. No key meant no use and no wear.

When I began probing the key way of my lock, I noticed three levers inside, but the bottom lever was depressed and locked in place. The other two had spring action. Knowing what I know about lock mechanics, I had to make an assumption- it was most likely that my Romer lock was simply a two lever design and what I was seeing was part of the fence component. In an effort to pick the lock I applied light pressure on the fence lever and began using needles to manipulate the two lever. I quickly felt the gate levers had teeth on their edges. This technique is still used today to give a false set on the levers. Fortunately, I was lucking to pick my lock open, but it was not easy even for a two lever padlock. This lock requires precise alignment of the two levers for the fence pin to correctly engage. There is very little room for error.

In an effort to decode the lock while it was open, I inserted two small straight needles to measure the difference in height between the top and middle lever. My measurement was .122 inch, so I made my first depth cut for the top lever at this measurement. I treated the middle lever as the zero reference since it was further in the lock. One mistake I made on a test key that I cut prior to my finished key was that I also treated the fence lever as a zero reference as well, and this simply didn't work. Using my .122 depth cut as a true reference, I began removing material at .005 depth increments for the fence lever until I had a working key. I was also able to trip the locking bolt with a small nail and observe the lever and fence interaction through the hasp hole while inserting my key. I could see the tiny teeth on the edge of the levers and a very thin fence pin with very little margin for error.

Because I could not find any original keys on the net for a basis of making a reproduction key blank, I had to invent what I imagined would make good functional key, especially for the purposes of identifying the correct insertion of the key. So, I introduced the dimple concept similar to the street letter postal locks. Overall, the lock and key work well together, but with this particular lock design I have to apply enough key pressure to engage the fence pin. It's not super smooth, but as good as it gets anyway with this type of lock. The locking bolt has a small spring loaded lever to help swing the hasp upward when the correct key is used.

[keys861]

Nicely done.

[Keyletter3]

Hello i have a street letter box lock #3. I was wanting to know if anyone would know how to get this one open. I found it when cleaning out a closed down retierment home and would really like to see it open. I can find lots of these on ebay and on the internet but i cant seem to find another #3 can any 1 explain what the numbers are for? This board wont let me attatch anymore pictures.

[Keyletter3]

The Key letter box lock looks just like the #13 one used in above posts

[atticRR]

Keyletter, upload your photo to an online site, i use photobucket, copy the image URL, paste to the body of the message, highlight, then click the button that says 'Img' thats right at the top of the message box-between [*] and URL.

Also, post your question in the 'locks' section in its very own thread rather than at the end of Laurens (stickied) thread. Thanks!

[ice_man]

looks good

[MrWizard]

Wow those are the best looking home made barrel keys I have ever seen! I would have never thought about mounting a slotter cutter in a drill press to make the round body shaft out of a piece of bar stock! Pivoting the stock vertically using the hole in the end is just brilliant!

Richard

[MrWizard]

So, I saw this seller on Ebay the other day get $25.50 for a Smith & Egge padlock like mine, only in horrible condition. In fact, the lock was taken apart and re-stamped in a very non-caring way. The only thing the seller had going for him was the fact that it had an original key. I would have bid on the items, but the price was too steep. I paid $30.00 for my lock and it was in great condition. If I had won the key from the Ebay listing, I could have traced it onto some steel and made a blank for my lock. One benefit that the listing did provide, was a wonderful picture of the key next to the padlock. The picture appeared to be shot directly over the lock and key. I printed a copy of the Ebay listing showing the picture. From the picture and measurements taken from my lock, I came up with a multiplier of 0.77. Using this number, I multiplied to all the needed measurements from the picture of the key.

This is the final result:


Smith & Egge Padlock with home made key.

I recently got one of these Smith & Egge Giant locks on ebay for 12.00 bucks with no key. Surprising it was fairly easy to pick applying shackle pressure using just one probe. Took only about 5 minutes to pick. Made 4 equal length rods, dropped them in and put 2 pieces of buna rubber on each side clamped them together, hand filed a key from safe deposit blank. Crossed my fingers locked it and the key worked perfect.

Was delighted being this was my first attempt at making keys for one of these. This lock is how I came to find this forum doing a search to find information on the origin of this lock. Here is the amazing thing. The key has exactly the same cuts as this one in the above post! I couldn't believe it when I seen it was the same! What are the odds, they must have made a bunch with the same key is all I can guess or maybe got it from the same seller and they acquired matching locks from someplace and didn't know it.

The other thing I find is odd about this lock is it doesn't have any pat date at all like Sept 4 1877 as all of the ones I have seen. Anyone know why it is missing the pat date, was it made before the pat was issued or after and they quit putting the date on them? How old is it if that is the case?

Anyway acquiring this lock has brought me to find this forum and joining. I have been a locksmith since 1978 but just now started collecting push key locks. This place is a treasure trove of information. I have seen it many times show up in google search but never came to see what I have been missing.

Richard

[Lauren]

My second S & E padlock that I got from Ebay was virtually the same depth cuts as my first. I believe that one cut varied by .020 inch from the othe key. I too was shocked that the keys were so close.

I never tried using shackle pressure on these locks. I'm glad it worked for you.

[MrWizard]

I was lucky enough to get another Smith & Egge lock today for $19.00 it is in the mail on it's way. This time with the patent date on it. It is one with the chain holder like the one posted it but no chain. Be nice if it happens to be the same key again. I excited about this one looks good

[Lauren]

Wasn't it $19.99?

[MrWizard]

Yes in fact it was 19.99 I guess I didn't remember the extra .99 my mistake. I don't know why nobody else wanted it with 8 watchers but I had to have one with the date on it and it wasn't dented up plus the lettering was stamped deep and clear unlike the only other one on there that had a key. I wanted one without a key so I could make one of my own or see if the key I already made fits this one too.

Richard