Dudley Combination Locks

[rayman452]

I used both combinations, since you gave me one of the numbers. I can use that as a reference along with others to plot out your combination. I need the counter-clockwise one to find out either the 2nd number or the 1st and 3rd number.

[vector40]

rayman, if you figure this out, I'm going to mail you a medal for perseverance

[digital_blue]

I second that. I'm not sure what, but there'll be something in it for you.

db

[Sabin37]

Ok rayman, here are my sticking points for both directions:

Lock 1

Clockwise:________Counter-clockwise:

0.5-3.5___________2-3.5
6.5-9.5___________6.5-10
12.5-15.5_________13.5-15.5
18.5-21.5_________Same
24-28____________25-28
30-34____________Same
36.5-39.5_________Same
42.5-45.5_________Same
48-51.5___________Same
54.5-57.5_________Same

Lock 2

Clockwise:________Counter-clockwise:

3.5-7____________Same
9.5-13___________10-13
15.5-19__________15.5-19.5
21-25____________21-25.5
27-31.5__________Same
33-37.5__________33-37
39.5-43__________Same
45.5-49__________Same
51.5-55__________Same
57.5-1.5__________58-1

After going through the sticking points for both directions, I noticed a certain trend in the locks. The sticking points that contain the combination numbers are almost always different when considering both directions. Maybe we're on to something...

I went through the sticking points many times, so they are very accurate.

[rayman452]

I knew it, I knew it. There is a difference in the way the dial is turned. Lock one and lock two are the same locks you posted earlier right? so I should have one combination to make reference to of approxamityl same disk make. Ill have it done when this disk is done burning and I can use that computer.

[Sabin37]

Yea, I'm pretty sure they are the same ones that I posted earlier. Both dials are blue and the combination to my second lock is 13-59-35.

[digital_blue]

one day i found a loose lock on a locker, wide open. i took it. not much in the locker of value so i just took the lock.

This is stealing. What's worse is that you imply that if there were anything of value in the locker you would have stolen that too. This is a forum of hobby lock pickers that are not interested in illegal activity, so if you insist on doing stuff that is wrong, please refrain from talking about it here.

Thanks,

db

[Orange_Crusader]

And I thought I mentioned a "no illegal activity is to be associated with any of this" bit a while back. We're the hobby-lockpickers, not the idiots who steal things.


I noticed a 0.5 difference in the spots where the right numbers are (on lock 2), and 2 false spots (the two false gates on the disks, obviously). Any ideas on how to figure out a false gate from a real gate? It's not that big of a problem, you've been given 5 numbers, with the first 2 numbers right (from lock 2), and 2 possibles for the last number. It would take a little while to try all the possible combos knowing 5 digits, but it's not too bad at all. It's odd how lock 1 gave 4 different points (maybe 3 right, and one false?), and lock 2 had 5 different ones (3 right, 2 false).

I'm thinking that when the lock is spun, and the shackle pulled, then the 1st and 2nd disks, which need to use the 3rd disk to move, could have a small impact on the size of the point (the gates are the same size, but when they are moved by the last disk, mechanical imperfections (such as an extra obtrucion of metal) make the gates line up imperfectly, changing the point #'s) . The false gate would show up in the same way, a small extra piece of metal in the shackle's way when it's tested. Obviously, when it's spun counter-clockwise, the obtrusion would be on the other side, changing the point #'s. I hope this makes sense (a bit odd to describe), because it seems at least a bit likely to me. Darm, this is getting close. I'll go and re-do the points, (CW and CCW) for my blue-dialed lock.

[Orange_Crusader]

Ok, I re-did the sticking points for one of my Dudleys, both CWs, and CCWs. These were all done after spinning it a few times to "collect" the disks, and checked and re-checked, so they're accurate. The combo is sort of "clumped" into a fairly small part of the availble space, so a few of the false gates probably fell onto one of the correct gates. The combo is VERY visible with this method, rayman, I applaud you. Great thinking. If any of these number depend on wear and tear (for example, the metal being worn away slightly from the moving bits of each disk, the gate nubs, etc, then the combo would be less visible. I'll need to find a brand new lock to test this with and compare. This isn't quite a perfect method of getting the combo, but it narrows it down to 4 or 5 possible digits, counting the 2 false gates, and that the combos for some locks have a false gate fall on real gate.

As I thought, this definetly does use the imperfections of the lock. When the shackle is pulled, it freezes the disks. The way that the disks are moved (well, the 1st and 2nd ones), with a bit of mechanical imprecision, makes the gates line up incorrectly. When you compare the differences between the clockwise (real and false gates being on one side, tells you nothing, really), and counter-clockwise (real and false gatews being on the other side, again, nothing by itself) points, it spells out the combo gates, and false gates. We just need a way to tell the 2 apart.

CWs

0-4
5-9
12-15.5
17.5-22.5
24-28
29.5-34
36-40
41.5-45.5
47.5-52
49-57.5

CCWs

0-4
6-10
12-15.5
17.5-22
23.5-27.5
29.5-34
36-40
41.5-45.5
47.5-52
49-57.5

[rayman452]

Alright orange, I tried something with this, Sabin, yours is next after if this is close. Im putting you off because I want yours to be the perfect one, the one I crack first try. Orange, heres a few guesses


29.5-34
47.5-52
17.5-22
Those are just three of the guess I would have to say work best.


Just incase those are wrong, Ill say a few numbers I think are definatly wrong.


0-4
5-9
24-28
36-40
41.5-45.5
49-57.5

[Sabin37]

If I assume that just the sticking points which changed contained the numbers, then the possible combinations would be approximately:

7-20-26
7-26-20
20-7-26
20-26-7
26-7-20
26-20-7

Orange, would any of those work on your lock?

[Orange_Crusader]

Sabin, are you sure you didn't just read back in the thread to find that out? Yes, the second to last one is my exact combo.

Rayman, you got the last gate right, but the first two were off.

Sabin, do you mind sharing your method of extracting the combo from the points? It seems to be as simple as looking for the numbers change, and mine only had 3 different spots, so that's cake to figure out. Is there a specific difference you look for (a 1 digit change compared to 0.5, or both "sides" of the point chaning, or...).

I was thinking about this, and why we get different readings. Since the last disk moves the other 2, they would move along with it, and the gates would be in the same spot again and again, for every point, and the readings would change for every point (with the gates regular or reversed, and the imperfection (with the + - of 0.5 or 1 digit being reversed).

Maybe it's wear and tear (it can't be THAT heavy, though. Since I found my "project" lock a year or so ago, I don't know how old it is, at least used for one school year). Maybe it's another small, odd imperfection. Personally, I'd like to figure out the "why" as well as the "how" about cracking these, so that explains most of the theories and questions.

[Sabin37]

Orange, I see now what you mean by looking back in the thread to find the combination and no I didn't do that. All I did was look at your sticking points and compare the CW ones to the CCW ones. If there was any difference at all in an equivalent sticking point, I considered it a possibility for one of the numbers. The first point that changed was 5-9, which became 6-10. 17.5-22.5 became 17.5-22 and 24-28 became 23.5-27.5. I just took the middle number from each of the points to get 7, 20, and 26. Since there was only three sticking points that changed, it only gave 6 possibilities. It doesn't matter how much the sticking points change, as long as there is a change I consider it a possibility for one of the numbers.

rayman, I'm anxious to see your results for my lock.

[rayman452]

Alright Sabin, I have it done. I am not too sure if this is going to work, since I encorporated your idea with mine. Here goes nothing, but

for lock number two, I had guessed 11-22ish-34ish. Now, I then compared it with your actual combination, and found out that I had gotton two of them right. Why I didnt get the third one? Now that I look back, I see that the last number, 59ish, would actually fit in as the combination for this lock. Your first lock I am not too sure of, but amd pretty confident that 7ish is one of your numbers. If it isnt, then I have three numbers left to be your combination. Your combination for the first one would be 26-7-2 (this order can be changed remember) OR 2-14-26. I anxiously await your reply.

[rayman452]

Now trying my colour method on oranges, I see that it wouldnt work on his, considering only three of them are not coloured, unlike sabins where there are 4 or 5 different. That made me have to incorporate another colour scheme. Now trying htat on oranges, dispite the fact that he only has three different, I concluded with this little evidence I have, that 20 was a definate choice. That is undenyable. The other two were questionable, since there was no absolute way to find it out. I think this is because the lock orange used was a different dated one, probally newer. the number 7 fits, but not the way I would like it to. It does cfall into the green zone one, but the other green matches its exact same number, making it a guess. Same with the 26, but with that one in the purple zone it goes to the one with a difference of 8.5, really fortifying the fact that it is fake. I now just need a lock with the number 15 in it...to create the second chart...