Schlage Locks 101

[LockNewbie21]

Haha ray that last sentence should be a rule in here, i can't tell you how many time i got pissed at a lock, and just began watching a movie, and 2 mins. in open Amzaing how that works.

Maybe we get so into it because of all the variable like tension, and also the things we do and we dont notice when picking, like the more frustrated we get the mroe tension we apply, afte a while i can reconize this now.. but i still do it

actually it helped way back when i couldn't ge tthe r70, i was frustrateed so i locked the cylinder and just liftied the pins and let off a ltitle and clicked one, so i cooled off and just did that a presto, i figured out the tension trick on them.

I promised a while ago a demo video of the method with r70 and abus, but never got a video camera.. 800 posts later

[Krypos]

dang...ray...that was deep man. really. i agree with you alot...although i usually do that or listen to some music...music i really get into that is, so then theres a flow to everything. haha.

[digital_blue]

And stop trying to intellectualize the process, your overthinking, you should sit in front of the tv and watch a program while just going though the motions with the pick while not focusing on what your doing.

Now, back to you and lock picking.... here's what I'd like you to do. Over the next two weeks, while you wait for your locks to arrive at my door, and for me to give them a solid once over, I would like you to (I can't believe I'm gonna say this...) STOP working on my exercise. Stop it altogether. Don't do ANY of it. Just start picking up the locks that you have, use what you already know, and just pick them. Don't think about it. At all. In fact, try and think about something else most of the time. Watch TV while you do it. When the lock pops open, stop for a moment, try and think about what you were doing over the few moments previous *just for a couple moments*, then reset the lock and do it again. And again. And again. With as many locks as you can find. But try and put as LITTLE thought into it as possible. Just *ahem* poke and prod. If you *happen* to notice a pin setting, cool. If you *happen* to feel a pin bind, cool. But don't make a point of it. Just use what skills you currently have and pick away. Get as comfortable as you can at just idly picking locks with only passive concentration on the process. If you're working on one lock for more than 10 or 15 minutes and you haven't got it, put it down and pick another one up to work on that one. If you get to a point where you've picked one lock SOOOOO many times that it no longer represents ANY challenge, put it aside for at least 3 days and work on other locks.

I'd say that there's something to the idea of picking without paying attention. There will come a time when you want to go back to paying close attention so that you can get really learn to distinguish the feel, but for the time being, take the two week break, forget about LEARNING to pick locks, and just PICK LOCKS.

db

P.S. Glad to see you've chosen to "shop around" for some advice. There are a lot of great lock pickers and a whole lot of insight to be had from this community.

[zeke79]

It will also help out alot when beginning to have your deadbolt style locks mounted to a slolid surface such as a 2x4 placed in a vise or other manner. It is a big enough task to learn the ins and outs of picking without juggling a pick and tension wrench while trying to hold the deadbolt assembly also. Padlocks and euro style cylinders are much more suited to holding and picking in my opinion .

[digital_blue]

Really? You figure? I have always found it much easier to pick almost any lock in hands rather than mounted.

db

[zeke79]

Depends on the lock you are talking about. Like I said above, padlocks and euro cylinders are best in hand. A deadbolt assembly held in my hand has always seemed cumbersome and has been easier for me to pick mounted at a comfortable height that I can practice while sitting.

[undeadspacehippie]

i've only seen euro locks, and they do look more comfortable to hold. I have even made a sleeve out of some cardboard and various adhesives and tapes that slips over top of the part of the lock where the springs reside (please forgive me lack of proper name here, its been a late night... lol oh its the afternoon now).

I am working on a schlage lock that a locksmith has custom pinned for me - to taunt me, I have mentioned in other posts that I have been working on a schlage that he has designed for me, which i still can't open, and this new lock is the exact lock but with out the extra heavy springs that he put in it. I took the advice posted here about the top tensioning, made the wiper blade, but find it difficult to keep the tension on in this manner. I am still working on this though, this is my first attempt at this method. I am also using slimmer picks on these locks, but still find it difficult to open it - actually I have never opened them yet -- its been 2 days for the new lock with no heavy springs, and about 1 month for the lock with heavy springs.

I'm going to watch a movie and just pick. Have a great day folks...

[MPXS-20]

I have a question...It's a stupid question altogether, but I can't find the answer. How do you pronounce "schlage"? I've always been saying it like "shlag", but I'm not too sure that's correct...And from what country is this company?

Second question: Is there a company that creates more pick-ellusive pin-tumblers?

Thanks for listing to a couple of questions. Peace.

[Bud Wiser]

I just got my first shlage after easy pickings with Guard and Kwikset. I'm having trouble with schlage too trying to pick it pin by pin.

Can it be raked with either a rake or snake pick? If not, which is the best pick for it? I was using the standard stright pick with a slight bend at the tip. Works great for the others I've tried, but nothing with this lock and it's a light duty door mount shlage!

Thx.

[Gordon Airporte]

I have a question...It's a stupid question altogether, but I can't find the answer. How do you pronounce "schlage"?

Long A - schlaig.

Second question: Is there a company that creates more pick-ellusive pin-tumblers?

Oh yes, many. Actually, Schlage makes some high security locks - search around for the 'Primus'.

[sturmgrenadier]

Hey folks,
I'm getting a lot out of this exchange here. One of the things I'm quickly finding out is that while there is a wealth of expertise and information to avail one's self of on LP101, this very abundance of resources is a barrier to benefiting from them. I'm still trying to find a way to effectively allocate my time towards reading only those postings by particular, expereinced posters who are good explainers and useful threads that are relevant to me as a hobbyist (who holds out a fleeting and foolish hope of one day doing this for business, say as a lockout specialist:). I guess that I'm slowly getting better at focusing on a few threads; finding this Schlage 101 thread was a stroke of great luck. Do any of you other newbs have also have this feeling ogf being overwhelmed just when coming to LP101? I wish that the site had a search-engine style tool that would allow users to search for threads by keywords (Unless I'm mistaken, I think you can only search by poster name)

Anyway, back to my question..........In coaching me, our esteemed site administrator from the prairie province of central Canada has emphasized to me time and time again the importance of learning how to 'feel' the pins, whether it be a single pin lifting or the binding pin (much akin to the way that an experienced realtor will tell a trainee 'Location, lcoation, location!') AS I've stated in my earlier posts, I'm having major toruble picking this skill up at all. Thanks for all of the tips and insights. RIght now, I'm taking another week off from 'active, focused' learning and am just picking away for leisure to try to diffuse (hopefully) some of the negative energy and frustration that has built up in me owing to my failure thus far wiht lockpicking. Do you all find that 'feeling' the pins is transmitted most through tactile means? And if so, do you (personally)gain this data from your fingertips, the inside surface of you fingers, the palm or somewhere else? I have read that some pickers gain information through auditory means. Really? I can't hear anything unless I release all tension on my wrench and I hear (usually several) clicks. Or is figuring out what is happening within the lock more of a holistic kind of thing: the amalgam of one's aduditory, tactile, visual, mental and other intangible senses? Please comment. I would be happy to just detect any feedback at all irrespective of the sensory medium:( Thank you all

[Bud Wiser]

I'm a newbie so you may not pay too much attention to me. I am having trouble with schlage too. Had easy pickings with master, guard, kwikset, and a couple of others. May be it's just the schlage model I have. It's a door mount light duty. Cheaper schlage. So I'm wondering if the quality makes a difference. I ran in to a similar experience with Guard. I picked 3 different gaurds, 2 were very easy, but one was unpredictable, depsite the same techique! Come to discover that this lock had trouble even with the key! So may be I have a bad schlage?

Any way since I have bad hearing, I have 40% hearing loss in both ears I go entirely by "feel". I can feel and visualize pretty good. But on this schlage it just feels very rough, and the pins don't move as well as other locks I've tried. It actually resembles the bad Guard I had some trouble with.

My question is which would be the best pick to use on schlage? It's hard for me to tell because I only have one schlage and I'm not sure it is of good quality! With the other locks I could effectively pick them one pin at a time, and also rake them open too! So if any one could tell me which pick they like to use on schlage I'd appreciate it.

thx

[Bud Wiser]

Well I finally got it picked. I used a slight hook pick. But I still can repeat it as often or as easily as other locks! Even when all the pins are up it won't open some times! My fastest time so far was 3 minutes (luck!), longest time so far 1 day Average 10-15 minutes!

[sturmgrenadier]

Bud Wiser,
No, I welcome and am appreciative of your comments. I apologize if I made it sound like I only wanted to take the time to ehar what the 'pros' have to say. I'm sure that I can learn a lot from less-expereinced pickers sharing their experiences, too, especially since I'm a beginner. Yeah on getting that tricky Schlage opened. I hope to sonehow someday reach your level of proficiency; it's amazing to me that you can open a Master, other padlocks and Kwikset with some regularity. I have about a half dozen, brand new Master Lock no.1 padlocks, and a dozen of a slightly bigger size model (haven't even bothered to look). I thought it wouldn't hurt to play around with one of the no.1's and I've been doing that for a day and a half, but no go. I hate how the cylinder is not bolted down in a fixed lcoation and is rather floating around in the body of the lock. Fore someone who already has great difficulty feeling 'binding' and controlling/feeling the varaiations in the amount of tension that I apply, it makes the task even more problematic. that is to say, if I adjust the tension even the SLIGHTEST...., it is hard to know how much of this change is being transmitted and abosrbed by the motion of the cylinder and how much is actually being imparted to the actual torque/rotation force on the cylinder itself. Nobody, not even DB wnats to tell me it (I suspect), but I really suspect that some (perhaps most) people are blessed with the tactile and perceptive sensitivity/acuteness that is an imperative of lockpicking. Elaborating upon this, it is the ability to instincitvely measure and recognize in one's mind the slightest variations in hand movement and their impact upon an object. Call it hand-mental coordination if you will. I've reached the point where it I get a feeling of morbid amazement when I read posts where experienced lockpickers state that they can 'feel a slight difference in the resistance of each pin respectively' or 'if i just push a pin up gradually with a series of gentle 'taps', I can tell which is the binding pin and sense when it crosses the shear line' huh? On a small lock cylinder, all it takes is one 'tap' (slight levering motion and your pick has gone as far as it can possibly goes (strikes the bottom of the tension wrench, the bootom of the keyway, etc.) From reading these guys, you would think that you are working with pins that are two inches long! maybe then you would have 'enough pin' to progressively push the pin up in incremental motions and more importantly, you the process of pushing the pin up would be SUFFICENTLY LONG ENOUGH so as to perceive what you are feeling. Schlage, Master, whatever I pick, the levering motion is over in an instant no matter how carefully and slowly I lever. Certainly not long enough to read in enough sensoruy input to garner an inkling of what is going on. OH WELL<, maybe they'll come out with kid/idiot practice locks that are JUMBO SIZE with six inch pins for people who want to encounter some success in picking. LOL As it is, on real-scale locks, all pins feel equally resistant to me (or immovable to me) or crunchy! You guys have awesome senses. I admire you. I really do :(

[Bud Wiser]

Don't admire me too much, it was a small master, and it was easy. Although I can pick kwikset and guard the easiest I still get no where some times! Or it may take up to 20 minutes! As for the schlage, all luck so far! As I still can not pick it predictably and I still feel like I'm playing the lottery with it! It's frustrating how easy it appears, yet can take for ever and other times open faster! I have no idea how I open it. Often when I can get all the pins up nothing happens. Other times I can get all the pins up accept for one of the middle pics and as soon as I get those up it will open! So you see I have no bragging rights yet! I still have a long way to go! I just thought it would be good for a fresh noob like me to share what I'm going thru so others don't feel so bad.

I know I have a long way to go because I have gotten so use to picking locks sitting down in a comfortable chair at my leisure holding them in my hand. Today I had an opportunity to go over a relatives house that was not home so I could let their dogs out. I brought my picks with me just for fun. I could not pick their simple kwiksets! It's a little different when the lock is in the door and you are kneeling down in a uncomfortable position! Of course I didn't spend too much time trying. I gave myself 5-10 minutes for each lock and called it quits.

I want to get to the point where I don't feel like I'm playing the lottery!

Take Care!