Spools make picking easier

[BobbO45]

I too agree with spool pins being easier to SPP. I think Deathadder is right though, that spools make it harder to rake a lock open. I just found out that the first lock I ever picked had spools in it and that explained a lot. Once I learned to feel for those pins I could open the four pin lock in about the time it took me to say 1..2..3..4, it was great! (That is, after I figured out how to do it. Before I figured it out I was quite frustrated figuring I had a lock with all non security pins)

[Wrenchman]

Agreed spool pins are making lockpicking much easier 1´s you´ve learned the secret!

And for those of you who still don´t know it, here ´s the deal:

I am using a padlock as an example!

A false set spool pin feels springy(actually it feels hard, until you allow the tension-wrench to go CCW), now what does that mean, it means that trying to lift a false set spool pin, will make the tension-wrench go the other way(CCW), now the secret is to keep tension CW, while allowing the tension-wrench to go CCW, at the same time, as you lift the pin to the sheer-line, what you do is you push the tension-wrench CCW with the pick, as you push the pin up!

Imagine you have a matchbox between your right and left index finger, if you take your right finger to the right, your left finger has to go right too, in order for the matchbox not to fall down, but if you push the right finger to the left the left finger will automatically go......yes left, but still keeping tension to the right!

I just made that up, hope it helps!



Wrenchman

[digital_blue]

Yeah, I'll throw my vote in on this one too. I find spools often allow you to be a bit sloppier in your pick style - once you know what you're doing with them. But give them to a novice and you can say goodnight.

db

[NKT]

I've got to disagree. The security spools slow you down, far, far more than non-security pins. It's even said in this thread by those agreeing!

Take a Sterling cylinder. 5 or 6 pins, under 20 seconds. ERA basic, 5 pins, 30 seconds tops (except for one I had that was actually defective, and one we found that only had all 1 & 2 cuts!)

Compare that to any 5 pin with a couple of spools, like the old Yale rim cylinder, with two spools, and you can see that, despite the ERA being comparable quality, the Yale is far, far harder to open. Even ninja raking will normally leave one that you then have to stop, change picks and pop open, unlike a non-security one, where you just need the tension to be correct.

The bobbins are the nasty ones, though, especially with the stronger springs, a la GEGE, where everything is a security pin, and raking all 6 pins tends to threaten to bend your pick!

[blake1803]

I know this is an older thread but I had to chime in here because I just had this exact same thought while SPP'ing a surprisingly easy spool-pinned lock today. I had never really thought about it before. It's great how we've all sort of come to the same conclusion/had the same little epiphany, independently and at our own pace

I disagree with this, though:

I think Deathadder is right though, that spools make it harder to rake a lock open.

On more difficult locks I might first try raking to get the false set and then SPP the rest of the way, before I attempt to SPP the lock from start to finish. And then once I know a lock well enough, it's a snap to rake all the way... but I suppose that's the case with most pin tumbler locks: once you get to know the lock well, you can open it just about any way that suits you

[n00bking]

how are they easier to pick? I can pick like 2 of my spool pins in my kw1 deadbolt, 3 tough, more than that I can't do it without looking at the cutaway! When I release tension enough to slide another spool up sometimes other ones fall down. Like when there is tension enough to hold the pins up, you can't push more up, when but there is little enough to push another pin up there isn't enough to push it down. I am a n00b though what do I know. My pick gun works great on spools. 3 clicks is the best i have ever gotten all 5 pins on. 1 on normal pins. (1 snap)

[Schuyler]

how are they easier to pick? I can pick like 2 of my spool pins in my kw1 deadbolt, 3 tough, more than that I can't do it without looking at the cutaway! When I release tension enough to slide another spool up sometimes other ones fall down. Like when there is tension enough to hold the pins up, you can't push more up, when but there is little enough to push another pin up there isn't enough to push it down. I am a n00b though what do I know. My pick gun works great on spools. 3 clicks is the best i have ever gotten all 5 pins on. 1 on normal pins. (1 snap)

A lock with no security pins, but extraordinary tolerances and cruel bitting can be extremely tough. Add in a spool or two, and you at least have a chance to false set it and work from there. It's an exciting moment when you finally false set a lock you've been fighting for a while.

[n00bking]

let me ask you something. in you guy's expirience in picking and pinning locks with security pins. do they have all five pins spooled or securitized with a different security pin? Or just like 3 spools and 2 normal. But if you think about it, if you have a spool in there. just 1, you apply tension, the cylinder hits the normal pins and not the spool so the spool would act like any other normal pin. but all 5. just a little tension and they all are blocked from going up.

[Schuyler]

You don't lift every pin at the same time. 1 Spool still acts like a spool, because when you set the other pins, it turns out you never actually set the spool, you just thought you did.

Typically you'll find some security pins and some not, until you get into high quality products, and even then, you see more serrations, in my personal experience.

(and, of course, spoorrations...)

[n00bking]

hold up. Unless you set the spool last, it would act like a normal pin because the cylinder hits on the normal upper pins. And though not touching the spool the spool has space enough to move upwards right?

[Schuyler]

hold up. Unless you set the spool last, it would act like a normal pin because the cylinder hits on the normal upper pins. And though not touching the spool the spool has space enough to move upwards right?

The top lip of the spool will set before the bottom lip of the spool sets. Savvy? Doesn't matter what point it sets at, if you don't manage to set the bottom lip up above the sheer, you will eventually find that you're false set. You can false set a spool and not find out about it until you've set the 4th pin

[n00bking]

so you are saying the upper lip on a spool pin will set. I see that happening my but spool pins up lips are above the sheer line. so they would have to go down to set there right? omg i am a n00b!

[Schuyler]

so you are saying the upper lip on a spool pin will set. I see that happening my but spool pins up lips are above the sheer line. so they would have to go down to set there right? omg i am a n00b!

Not quite sure if I understand what you said, but if you explain what you're thinking a bit more to me I'll happily try to clear up what's happening. Once that upper lip has set, the spool is just resting in the gap between lips until you've set the rest of the pins, at which point the plug will turn slightly, that's when you know you've false set. You then push that spool up until the bottom lip has gone completely above the sheer, then the lock should open for you. As you move that spool up, you should notice the plug spin slightly back to center (opposite the way you're trying to pick it) as it makes room for the bottom lip to pass the sheerline.

[Charodei]

One of Deviant Ollam's diagrams might help explain what's happening as a spool pin is lifted:

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/02.05-spool_binding.html

It sounds to me like n00bking is describing a slightly different kind of spool, with the thin section running most of the length of the pin. The upper lip of such a pin could be above the shear line. It wouldn't bind until all the other pins have been set (or perhaps false set if they're spools). I'm not sure if this would make it more or less effective than other spools. Effectively, it would be false set to start with and not give the feedback of becoming false set, but would only require a little extra force to set.

[blake1803]

Typically you'll find some security pins and some not, until you get into high quality products, and even then, you see more serrations, in my personal experience.

One exception (a low quality product with decent pinning) that really caught me off guard was the Master 140. When I picked it up I just assumed it was going to be junk, but after it took me a good 15 minutes to pop the first time I dug around the site a bit ... turned out there are 3 spool and 1 serrated pin in there.