My very own clam kit

[FFVison]

ah, very clever. I get it now... thanks

[h1f1ve]

Hi guys - First post for Hifive:

If you use a mixture of lead antimoney and Bismuth you can get the melting point down to about boiling water tempurature. Teh benefit being its easy to melt and damages the mould less. Any contacts in the midlands?

[bluestar]

Welcome to the board and have fun

If you use a mixture of lead antimoney and Bismuth you can get the melting point down to about boiling water tempurature.

Is this available as a ready-to-use alloy somewhere? (For a reasonable price, of course)

[h1f1ve]

This is a great idea- simple kit to make up, congratulations. With the mould making materials you can find they distort - go gooy or even melt when hot metal is poured in at this temperature. the kit could possibly be improved by using a low melting point alloy ( doesnt mean its going to be soft. look up alloys with a low utectic point). It does however mean a wider possibility for the mould material and possibly less distortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutectic_point

I have made one up consisting of lead tin (solder) antimony and bismuth. Once created this can be melted in a bowl in boiling water or on the gas stove it is a lot safer than using propane gas containers and can be done almost any where. ( I know this may be hard to believe but cast your mind back to the metal joke spoons that melted in a hot cup of tea - not very safe or health and safety but it illustrates the point.

Thanks again and I hope this adds value to your stirling work.

[Jaakko]

I know this may be hard to believe but cast your mind back to the metal joke spoons that melted in a hot cup of tea - not very safe or health and safety but it illustrates the point.

I don't know your country, but in here they used Fields metal for that one, as it is a non-toxic for human. Your mixture is poisonous because of the lead.

[h1f1ve]

Thank you for that one - I am not suggesting you make joke spoons or any other containers for drink as this would definately damage your health. Fields metal is indeed a great alternative.

http://www.stop4stuff.com/fields-metal/

The metal itself is not a major hazard. However, all tin compounds, especially organotin compounds should be regarded as highly toxic. Organotin compounds are used as bactericides and fungicides in marine environments but cause environmental concern as they cause severe problems to local wildlife.

So health and safety warning: If you use any suggestion I may have used myself then you do so at your own risk. Even melting solder gives off toxic fumes. Melting metals such as solder lead tin all give off toxic fumes. This is another reason for using low melting point - eutectic materials, however until you have mixed and melted them you will not have an alloy.

DO NOT USE LEAD OR ANY HEAVY METALS IN PRODUCTS THAT ARE IN CONTACT WITH SKIN. DO NOT DRINK FROM CONTAINERS CONTAINING OR MADE OF THESE MATERIALS.

Personally I have used eutectic alloys to cast into moulds made from plastercine with success. This does not mean I advocate anyone should do this especially if you are in the habit of sucking your fingers. When abraiding and smelting use safety goggles,a filter and do it in a well ventilated area to ensure you do not breath in any hazardous material.

Take proffessional advice before undertaking any work as the hazards are not always obvious. I hope this addresses any mis-givings.

I would advocate buying Fields metal from a supplier - see link, as this would be the best all round solution. Melts around 61 degrees celcus.
h1f1ve

[truckyme]

I have used a material called lipowitz. It melts in hot water. They use it for radiation treatment for cancer patients. Basically they make a mold out of Styrofoam and cast the negative of it in the lipowitz. This alloy is also quite a bit harder that solder.

[Jaakko]

I have used a material called lipowitz. It melts in hot water. They use it for radiation treatment for cancer patients. Basically they make a mold out of Styrofoam and cast the negative of it in the lipowitz. This alloy is also quite a bit harder that solder.

In my opinion, not safe in any way: Contains lead and cadmium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipowitz's_Alloy

[TANGO]

If you are to use plumber's solder there are 2 types:

50/50:

Very soft and pliable
Melting point is very low (183°C to 212°C) or (361°F to 421°F)
This a mix of 50% tin and 50% lead.


Econosol or Lead free:

Contains no lead and is sturdier than the 50/50.
Melting point is higher . (236°C to 243°C) or (450°F to 464°F)
composition has a range of 87.0-92.9% tin, 4.0-6.0% antimony, 3.0-5.0% copper, 0.0-2.0% nickel and 0.0-0.5% silver





Composition(For nerds!):

Lead free solder:

50/50: 361°F

[Emrys]

I would DEFINITELY not buy plumber's solder with lead in it, if I were to use it for what it was intended for. That just doesn't sound smart.

And in this case, I didn't buy plumber's solder with lead in it either. I bought the lead free stuff. Seems to work alright.

As far as the other metals suggested, I'm sure they would be a good alternative, but I still see solder as the best choice because of how cheap & easily available it is. That was the main reason I tried this. I wanted to see if I could put together a clam kit with a significantly cheaper price tag than those on the market right now, and at 10 bucks, I think I did.

-Rob

[Safety0ff]

I was thinking about this concept during most of my evening yesterday

How does play-doe compare to clay and other similar materials?

Using lead free solder that contains a large amount of tin makes sens to me (only because I was trying to think of the easiest source for tin last night.)

Tango, thanks for the info on lead free solder composition.

Emrys, indeed the solder you have chosen consist mostly of tin, and probably silver and/or copper.
I noticed you didn't mention the use of baby powder in the mold before pouring. Do you think that would affect the end result?

[Safety0ff]

*EDIT*
I just noticed that in the picture the mold was covered in baby powder. nvm my previous last coment.

[raimundo]

someone else was asking about uses for the brass dust swept from the key machines, I think that if someone got something like a mortar and pestal and put a lot of the shavings in it, and a little bit of epoxy, then thouroughly mixed it, you could then press this into a couple of sticks of wrigleys gum that have the impression of a key pressed between them on their foil side. it would be like cold scintered metal if it works, wheres the experimenters here, I just throw out the ideas.

[Safety0ff]

Here's an idea for a higher resolution mold/cast and open up the possibilities of metals to make the copy of the key.
Instead of pouring molten metal into the clay/play-doe impression of the key use molten wax let it get cold (e.g. refrigerator, outside now that it's winter) and use the resulting wax key as a positive to make a negative plaster mold (I think you could just melt the wax out to remove it once it has set) which you could then cast without having the constraint of using low melting point alloys or simply heating the low melting point alloys for better flow in the mold.

I noticed the other clam thread talking about medeco keys, also it's not technically picking so mods please edit if the following is advanced topic.
Wouldn't you need to get all the bitting information in one side of the impression and the other half of the mold simply for the second half of the warding information and any secondary features (e.g. slider) the key might have.
If it is the case that we are able to reproduce keys this way doesn't key control (e.g. medeco) only exclude people without this knowledge from making a copy?

To raimundo, I was thinking about something like that but the only concern I had was that the mix would be too thick to flow into the mold properly to get all the detail out of it. Also, there could be the problem if used as a temporary key that the shavings get unbound and potientialy ( although unlikely) clog the lock. I'm not very experienced with this so I don't really know the magnitude of the possibilities I've came up with.

I won't be experimenting with any of this until my exams are over ( from 6 of Dec. until 21 .)

[raimundo]

apparently there are a number of different alginate compounds used by dentists for their very accurate mouth/tooth molds. and this stuff sets fairly hard in just 6 minutes.
Does anyone here have access to alginates?