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Serrated Pin State

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Postby Exodus5000 » 7 Aug 2004 23:01

What I found with a brinks shrouded in specific, is that 5 if the 6 pin stacks have spools (at leat on the 3 i have.) So if one were to pick the pin stack with the normal pin, and any other pin, you would get the plug to false set, and it's just a matter of working through the spool pins, which is very easy. So, find and set the normal pin, then it's all downhil from there.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
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Postby Guitar_J » 8 Aug 2004 15:14

I can't seem to get passed the bottom serrated pins
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Postby Exodus5000 » 9 Aug 2004 0:24

Keep at it. try to find the number of clicks needed to set the pin, and constantly look for pin stacks that don't have spools.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
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Postby rakemaster » 9 Aug 2004 19:49

Guitar_J wrote:I can't seem to get passed the bottom serrated pins


I don't understand Guitar. Are you reverse picking? In normal
picking the serrated bottom pin doesn't matter unless you overset
the pin or are reverse picking.

Unless Im missing something.

Rakemaster
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Postby S3rratedSp00L » 10 Aug 2004 2:27

Hmmm... I have tried and tried to reverse pick locks with serrated pins with no luck, however serrated pins really aren't that bad to pick pin by pin! They just make some extra clicks. :) (Well, they do need practice still) ;) Definitely give reverse picking a try too! It may work for you and your lock!

Picking pin stacks with both serrated drivers and serrated keypins, using light tension.. lightly tap on the key pins and you will probably hear a few clicks, but when a pin sets, it will feel slightly different. It may not want to go further without added pressure so don't try to force it just yet... whenever the pin feels set, just move on to other pins. I find that if I hold a light and relatively consistent tension I get the best results... The problem is when you push a key pin up too far and the serrations on the key pin come into play, holding the key pin false set... This is where extremely light tension can be you friend as I find that with a really light tension the serrations on the key pins don't hold very well. Which hopefully causes the key pin to drop back below the shear line and maybe even set properly in a manner similar to reverse picking as mentioned by other people. Be careful not to push the pins too far up if the key pins are serrated, until you get into a situation where all the pins feel set but the plug isn't turning yet... then try to push the pins that you feel need to move. Trust your gut, and/or experiment... until you have memorized the lock... This is the technique I use when trying a lock that contains these type of pins for the first time....

Hmmm... Now, what if you have serrated spools!? Arrrgh! Actually, I find locks with plain serrated drivers and serrated keypins harder to pick that locks with spools and serrated keypins.. the only explanation I can think of for this is that there aren't as many prominent landmarks! ;) :) plain serrated drivers can be strange because you sometimes glide over a serration. Believe it or not, serrated spools aren't much more difficult than plain spools, just different.. If your tension is light enough you may not notice a difference.. (I may just be used to them or something) With a very light tension the lock tends to click more when a stack properly sets! (Not always so evident when WD-40 is used, though... depends on the lock...)

On a lock with serrated spools and serrated drivers, I find that the method I end up using until I get used to the lock is to try to get the spools to "lock up". tapping on pins and when I hear a click or two I move on to the next one until I end up landing in the middle of a spool.. I consider spools to be "Landmarks" so I know generally where I am at.. (Half way there for that stack!) It helps me to visualize the pins. :)

Mixing serrated/non-serrated spools and mushrooms is something I haven't seen... I have also not seen a serrated mushroom pin, which could be interesting...

Spraying in some WD-40 as an anti-spool/serration measure does seem to help! If you are having trouble try the WD both wet and dry.. letting it dry seems to dry out the lock cuz WD acts more like a light cleaner and coating then a lube.. Use Tri-Flow or some other silicone spray lube when you want to lubricate properly... Flooding the lock with a little extra lube may help instead of WD, but not too much lube... (You will have to experiment!)

Anyway, my observations about serrated pins are that if you have plain (non-spool/mushroom) serrated driver pins and serrated keypins then it is harder to tell which serrations you are stuck on, but if the lock has spools (serrated or not) then you can catch on a spool and the serrations on the keypins become less important for that stack because the spools tell you that you haven't gone too far!... Mix and match a bit, add mushrooms, etc.. and you are in for some real fun! :)

Note: I hear that some brinks locks are using American brand cylinders, so they may even have some spools with serrations. Great fun! The shrouded padlock may be one of these.. The housekey versions that I have seen use a keyway that a kwikset blank fits into.. Don't let that fool you into thinking they are too easy though! ;)

Oh! I tension the top of the keyway lately with some small homemade wrenches... I actually have to use a screwdriver to carefully turn the cylinder when I think it is ready to pop open!

Wow, what a mouthful... I hope there is something useful up above for someone! ;) I am always interested in hearing about new techniques.. The wierder the better. ;)

Unfortunately, I learned about spools the hard way. Picking at random.. :) I still come across a lot that I can't pick right away... Time for more practice! :)
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Postby Hojo » 10 Aug 2004 6:58

Good to see how my invention...Gravity of coarse *Cough* :roll: helped you, im willing to sell gravity for a low price of $300....PM me....an yes, I do realise this has no point....sorry guys....im in a drunken state......without the alchole :roll:
Image
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Postby Guitar_J » 10 Aug 2004 10:31

rakemaster wrote:
Guitar_J wrote:I can't seem to get passed the bottom serrated pins


I don't understand Guitar. Are you reverse picking? In normal
picking the serrated bottom pin doesn't matter unless you overset
the pin or are reverse picking.

Unless Im missing something.

Rakemaster


On second thought... I think it is more of I'm using too much tension... This lock is the hardest and probably best lock I've tried to pick...

I will defeat it... I will become its master... It will curse the day I ever walked into wal-mart and bought it...
I wish the world was flat like the old days, and I could travel just by folding the map.
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Postby Exodus5000 » 10 Aug 2004 13:17

Yes you will learn to pick it, and constistantly. I had the most wonderful feeling the first time I picked it. And the wonderful thing is, after the first time you pick it, it gets easier at an exponential rate.

I've heard that some Yale locks are very difficult. Anywhere in Wisconsin I can buy a few of those?
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
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Postby S3rratedSp00L » 11 Aug 2004 13:35

It certainly does get easier after you pick it a few times I agree! :)

Once you get it open, practice it for a couple weeks and then go out and buy some more similar locks, or re-pin the beast.. Then practice for a few more weeks, because when you start changing things around you might have to learn some things over again to get rid of any bad habits.. These locks tolerate fewer bad habits. :)

Then go pick some easy locks and watch them be even easier because you are used to using light tension to defeat spools! :) The same touch seems to work well on a lot of other locks...

Oh, once you can open your locks consistently, then try locking it to things and opening it.. It does have an effect, and it simulates a lockout situation. :)

....and have fun! :) :)
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these brinks you keep referring to

Postby frollard » 13 Aug 2004 9:43

....do they have any auto-resetting spring-loadings?

I have one similar in design to an american, and cant pick it for the life of me. why? because when I set security pins, I cant 'release' the tension, I have to release, and go backwards, which with a loose fitting tension wrench (only kind available), I lose all the pins I have set.
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Inflation however, may have changed this.
...
edit: yup, its definately 43 now
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Postby S3rratedSp00L » 13 Aug 2004 12:56

Frollard, I am not sure exactly what you mean by "auto-resetting spring loadings?", but maybe I can help a bit anyway! :) The only springs that I know of are just standard springs in each stack... When you encounter a spool, you don't really release tension, but you kind of "rock" the tension.. It's kind of hard to explain, but when you push on a stack with a spool in it and lighten the tension just a bit it will push back on the plug. (You probably know that much... ) I would like to add that you can recognize when you have a false set spool, at least on american brand, by the fact that the plug turns slightly (but doesn't open) and you can practically release all tension if you are careful not to bump the plug. I can actually take my wrench completely out and take a break sometimes believe it or not! :) So, anyway, you do not actually have to release tension, just lighten it up to the point where spooled stacks will push back at the plug when you push on the those key pins!

Another phenomenon that I have encountered is that when you really wrench the plug trying to open the lock and find that you are stuck on a spool it will sometimes bind things up a little bit more than usual.. Meaning the plug kinda sticks and when you go to look for the offending spool you just get the same stuck feeling from all the pin stacks and none push back.
This is usually one of those occasions where the tension tool could possibly even be completely removed from the lock because everything is just binding.. I find that I need to tap at the pins with almost no tension on the tool. First I tap lightly and then I give a little more force.. eventually I get something that pushed back! There's the offender! :) If you are careful, you can actually use the wrench or the pick to lightly turn the plug backwards a tiny amount without disturbing anything and making it easier to find the nasty spool... I actually like locks with spools now! ;)

When you set the spools, some other pins may drop, of course, and need to be set again. Sometimes other spools will drop. There may be a particular order to setting spools in your lock as well.. Things to watch for and recognize. :)

I hope this helps you out in some way! Let the lock tell you what is going on, and most importantly listen carefully with your fingers for what it has to say. ;)
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Postby S3rratedSp00L » 13 Aug 2004 13:07

Hmmm... by "auto-resetting spring loadings" do you mean a spring loaded plug itself? Like on the brinks R70 diskus style lock for instance, where there is a spring to overcome when turning the plug? That may make it a little trickier, or may make it easier.. a spring loaded plug can beused to your advantage to turn the plug backwards for you! I don't think of that as an anti-picking measure, although it sure may act like one. :) It does change the feel a little bit. On a lock with a spring loaded plug, it is about knowing how much to rotate as well as listening intently with your fingers for feedback. The spring may deaden the feedback or lead you to believe that a pin stack is pushing back when it isn't.. Just don't let it fool you! :)
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