Suggestions and Advice for Kwikset and Schlage

[SALocksmith]

I've found another biting with kwikset that eludes me, it's rather irritating as there is no way to know for sure that you can defeat every kwikset you encounter. I'd like to have the confidence to know I can pick kwikset anytime and quickly. I can't seem to pick 65621 at all. /sigh.

[Squelchtone]

I've found another biting with kwikset that eludes me, it's rather irritating as there is no way to know for sure that you can defeat every kwikset you encounter. I'd like to have the confidence to know I can pick kwikset anytime and quickly. I can't seem to pick 65621 at all. /sigh.

You really need a set of Raimundo's Bogata Rakes.

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8205

I think Raimundo or someone here may have a a handful of sets left for sale, they're the deadliest picks I've ever used.

I have a set in my wallet at all times.
Squelchtone

[Schuyler]

you can get them via Serepick: http://serepick.com

Those are made by Rai himself. Also - don't forget that it's not just the bitting that can stymie you. With patience and practice you'll be popping locks like crazy. Just be easy about it. Pick while you're watching TV or hanging out with friends, the muscle memory you build up is a big part of it.

[Eyes_Only]

There also some Kwiksets' like the Kwikset Titan that will have spool drivers in them to watch out for. But I don't think most hardware stores carry them anymore.

[SALocksmith]

I purchased a pick gun and new plug spinner. Also a file and about 100 blanks. I will continue to practice my SPP and Rake techniques. And I know the pick gun is certainly no magic bullet. I've used one a few times in the past, but I've never owned one myself. I also may practice bumping. It's good to have options in these situations I think, Manual Pick, Pick Gun, Bump, impression, and finally rotary pick. Im not one to stand around and pick on a door for an hour though, 10-15 minutes and out comes the rotary. I do find it difficult to impression pin-tumbler locks, as I learned on mostly cam locks (wafers). The type you see on desk drawers, filing cabinets, etc. My boss does not really want me bumping, he says it's the same as a pick gun and if you can't pick it, or snap it, you probably can't bump it either. He's a big car guy though and really awesome at key origination so it's fun to watch him work.

[Schuyler]

He's right about bumping. The exact same thing is at play with a pick gun or a snapper. It isn't the elegant newton's cradle that people sell it as. The amount of force you are putting into the key is more than the pins & springs can cleanly handle. Very High Speed Photography of bumping attacks on cutaway locks show the pins ricochet off of each other & the fully compressed springs 3-4 times per strike. You're simply creating chaos in the lock & hopefully finding a path through it. Same thing as a snapper or pick gun.

Impressioning is great, but unless you become exceptional, competitively fast at it, it's not going to fit in your 15 minute window. Still - it's a great skill to have, especially if, for one reason or another, a lock is not to be destroyed. Also, it's entirely possible that you can get good enough at it to make up for the drilling & installation time. What would you estimate those to be? I think you could, with practice, be impressioning locks consistently in 45 minutes.

Of course if you get to the end of those 45 minutes and the key is non-functional, you'll have to drill anyway...

[SALocksmith]

Hmm I don't know, i've had the pleasure of working with some master locksmiths, with 20+ years of experience and i've watched these guys impression a lock in less then 5 minutes. Especially, simpler wafer locks. Some of the more advanced, modern techniques including using a code machine (HPC 1200 in this case) to cut all 1's from the start as well. This gets you perfect spacing, and eliminates an entire depth from the get-go.

[Schuyler]

I agree with that, and wafer locks will fall open in a heart beat, pin tumblers not as fast. And yes, I prepare my blanks to 1 cuts as well. I'm just saying that you are going to have to be as good as them before you'll be able to do that consistently for your customers. For me, I associate that sort of skill & talent with competitive impressioning, as that is where my passions are firmly rooted. Same idea, same skills, just different people to look up to.

[Eyes_Only]

You may not run into a situation where you'll have to impression too many pin tumbler locks on most residential and commercial calls, but when running automotive lost key jobs you'll sometimes get the older Chrysler and Ford vehicles that uses pin tumbler locks so being proficient at impressioning pin tumblers can still be a very useful skill to have.

I'm glad I knew how for all the trunk lockout calls on those older Fords I got that used all 10-cut wafer locks except for the trunk where they used a 5 pin tumbler lock for some odd reason.

[SALocksmith]

So with regards to Bump keys once again, is there really any reason for a locksmith or security professional that has access to a real pick gun to ever bother with this technique? Seems like just more tools/keys to keep up with and carry if a simple snap gun will work the same.

[globallockytoo]

So with regards to Bump keys once again, is there really any reason for a locksmith or security professional that has access to a real pick gun to ever bother with this technique? Seems like just more tools/keys to keep up with and carry if a simple snap gun will work the same.

I would say that the greater majority of locksmiths would not bother with bump keys. It is fairly easy to use a pick gun and often quicker.

I doubt whether significant numbers of locksmiths have ever bumped anything.

[Eyes_Only]

Most locksmiths I knew of were surprised (and some trilled) at the idea of a key that can so easily open a lock when they first heard about it. I personally found no use for them cos it made me feel kinda dumb using them seen how my hook pick had much better chances.

[UnlockD]

I don't see to many residential schlage down here in Texas with security pins. I wonder if it's a regional thing.

Must be, when I did drywall work I noticed that all the new houses in one town had Schlage deadbolts, another town 30 minutes away had Kwikset.

[SALocksmith]

I finally got my new tools in, the Brockage pick gun and peterson spinner, file and blanks. I must say, Im a bit disappointed with the pick gun, as I seem to rarely be able to make it work. I can generally pick the lock by hand much faster. Perhaps it's a lack of experience with pick guns? Im not sure im applying tension properly. My boss uses the pick gun by clicking and then applying tension, i've never heard of this method before. I always assumed you'd apply constant light tension. It's a pretty expensive tool and I did expect better results. I have not had a lot of luck with the impressioning either, attempted a schlage deadbolt and had a hell of a time, I just can't seem to identify the marks. I wonder if it is the file I am using to polish the blade? (A #2 swiss grobbet, round file) perhaps I should have gone with a #4? It's the only file I have available at the moment. After a few hours of practice I was feeling rather disappointed and defeated heh. I will keep at it.

[SALocksmith]

I forgot to comment on the Peterson Plug Spinner, this is a very nice tool, the best spinner i've used. I like it much better then the HPC "Flip it". It's small, well made, and easy to use. It fits quite nicely in my pickset. Though I do think they are a bit overpriced.