Making an unpickable Lock

[n2oah]

The M&C Antiklop (featured in a TOOOL presentation) is pickable, but after you turn the plug 10 degrees, the trap pins fall in the cylinder and the lock cannot be opened unless it is drilled. These springs that control the trap pins are so compressed that a plug spinner, thread, and various other methods of bypassing the trap pins will not work. Unfortunatly, these locks can still be impressioned easily, they only have 5-6 pins and none are "security" pins.
I incorporated the "trap pin" design into the Mul-t-lock design using AutoCAD (I probably infringed a couple of patents doing that) That in my mind is a "pick proof" lock.

[jamesphilhulk2]

i don't know if this has already been posted but has any of you heard of a very very high security lock which uses a ball-bearing to stop the lock from opening for example if i were to try and pick this and failed the ball-bearing moves into place and completely locks itself down

If any of you have heard of this type of lock before could you please enlighten me on it, and i'm 99.9% sure that it exists

[NKT]

Thinking about it, no-one has yet mentioned the Abloy range. The older ones could be picked and decoded, but the latest ones have various tricks to prevent manipulation.

Having pulled one apart and read a few papers on it, I'm no expert, but I know a man who is. I've not met or heard of anyone with proof they have picked any of the newer Abloy ranges, and nor has he. The KGB couldn't get past them either, and actually used them!

The top of the range has anti-snap, massive anti-drill, anti-pick, 1.6 billion key combinations, over 200 key profiles, good key control on keys that are really hard to copy, etc.

Just come up with a variantion on them that isn't patented or is out of patent, and away you go!

[n2oah]

i don't know if this has already been posted but has any of you heard of a very very high security lock which uses a ball-bearing to stop the lock from opening for example if i were to try and pick this and failed the ball-bearing moves into place and completely locks itself down

Many locks use a dual-ball locking system just as you described. I'll show you how it works in a later post, and yes it is pickable.

On high security locks, I feel that many lock manufactures are moving in the wrong direction. More pins and springs are making locks less reliable because there are so many things that can go wrong. Abloy has the right idea-- it's quite simple, it's security is incredible, and can stand up to harsh weather.

[n2oah]

james, I think this is what you wanted. An explination of the dual-ball locking system. The explination is in the pictures. Some advantages of the dual-ball system:
Un-shimmable, attempts at shimming will only result in broken shims
Resists torquing attacks to a reasonable level
The dual-ball system is also simpler and cost effective







Does that help?

[cracksman]

N2oah,

I think it's time to re-carpet your desk.
You got a stain there in the bottom right.

Nice little tutorial though

[n2oah]

You got a stain there in the bottom right.

Soldering iron...don't ask.

[tshock]

Here is what I think would make a lock hard to pick:

Pin type setup from front to back: normal, spool, spool, serrated, spool
high/low setup from front to back: low(already set), low,high, low, high
and the secret to making secure locks:
spring setup as follows: soft, hard, hard, soft, hard

Variation of spring stiffness makes it difficult to get the proper torque and we all know that proper torque is the a big part of picking.

thats my idea of a difficult lock. I include different springs in my weiser practice lock and it definently makes it harder.(especialy when you are dealing with spool pins.)

[n2oah]

tshock, I incorporated your idea of various springs into a Mul-t-lock with trap pins. I drew up a little diagram with AutoCAD and converted it to a .bmp. My errors stick out like a sore thumb, thou.




There a 14 pin stacks in this lock. (7 inner stacks, 7 outer stacks)
It is pickable, buy you wont get it open because the trap pins will fall into the plug first. If you try using a plug spinner, the trap pins will still fall into the plug because they are compressed highly. If you do manage to defeat the trap pins, (I don't see how you could) there is still another notch at the bottom of the plug where the trap pins may fall into. If the trap pins do fall into the plug, the only way of opening the lock will be to drill out both the top and bottom of the plug. The features of the Mul-t-lock interactive could also be incorperated into this lock (the floating ball design)

[tshock]

Sheer Brilliance. What a good design.

[n2oah]

Whoops. The notch on the bottom of the plug should be taken out. I was working faster than I was thinking.

If you do manage to defeat the trap pins, (I don't see how you could) there is still another notch at the bottom of the plug where the trap pins may fall into.

Disreguard that, too.

[tshock]

Hmm, I like it! Lets present it to Mul-ti lock company

[n2oah]

I'd like to integrate the floating ball design into this cylinder, too. I saw a good diagram of it once, but forgot where it was. Maybe we could even use dual floating balls?

[n2oah]

I was also thinking of incorperating Biaxial into this design

[tshock]

Could we seriously show the design to someone? That would be awsome!!