Making an unpickable Lock

[n2oah]

Could we seriously show the design to someone? That would be awsome!!

Sure, as long as I get a cut of the profit


I am designing some other locks, too. I am trying to incorporate sidebars, but I'm not sure how most sidebars work. I also need help grasping the floating ball design.

[wtf|pickproof?]

I don't see what should prevent the trap pins from beeing pushed back again. This will make them quite useless. There should be a mechanism to lock them in place once the fall down.

Another way of rendering this security useless would be to pick it, but don't turn it more than lets say 10 degree. Then one could drill above the drill protection, thus rendering the strong springs of the trap pins useless, without encountering the drillprotection. Afterwards a plugspinner can be used to open the lock.

The spool in spool pins might be prone to shearing them off(not sure on this one)

I like the design, but I think there is still work to be done to make it high security.

my 0,02€

[n2oah]

Thanks for the feedback.

I totally eliminated the anti-pick features on the inner pins, and reduced the depth of the anti-pick features on the outer pins.

Locking the trap pins in place is a great idea, so I incorperated into the design. I took a small chunk out the trap pins. The chunk is facing downwards and a small pin falls into the chunk. The pins doesn't need to be spring-loaded, but it can be. I'll make an updated drawing later.

[TOWCH]

A couple of thoughts. First being the strong springs might make this lock self destruct. That's alot of moving parts being forced against each other at high pressures. Another being I can imagine the springs losing their affectiveness by blasting the lock with a blow torch to anneal them. You could solve that problem with thermal relockers or making some of the moving parts melt at a low temperature but just something to think about. This lock also seems like it provides no added resistance to impressioning except of the foil variety. I can also imagine the plug being packed immediately after picking with fast hardening clay, plaster, a soft, low melting point metal, or a number of other things. The addition of a keyblank with the bitting removed to assist in this process would probably increase the chances or this working. If I was dealing with this lock my first instinct would be impressioning closely followed by an attempt to anneal the springs.

[TOWCH]

A couple other things I forgot in the last post. Make sure to keep the trap pins as close to the main pins as possible. The more rotation you give them the more they have to work with. The other one being that once the plug is picked but not trapped, the pins are just waiting to be decoded. From there a key can be made, the lock relocked and then you're back to a compromised lock. Another thought to the annealing bit is that I can imagine with trap pins and such becoming more and more prominent, a propane torch nozzle with a needle tip and a right angle adapter becoming more and more useful. If you can target the point of heat transmission accurately the likelyhood of success of that type of attack seems much more likely.

[n2oah]

How would you stop foil impressioning? I can't imagine how you'd impression a Mul-t-lock. The melting parts are also a good idea.

[TOWCH]

Foil impressioning should already be taken care of by the strong springs. Aside from that, my understanding is it doesn't work on Mul-t-locks anyway. For actuall impressioning, I can't really say. I've never tried. If the inside pins are always cut lower than the outside it seems possible with a drill press but it doesn't sound fun. If not, I guess a donut shaped abrasive bit might work but that's just one more complication to an already painful task. There's also the fact that with such stong springs, bound pins might leave almost identical markings to set pins. One nice part about your idea is it requires very little modification to a normal Mul-t-lock, so it would not require huge changes to their current manufactoring processes. It's essentially just some additional milling to the lock body with some strong springs and pins thrown in.

[TOWCH]

For the melting part idea, imagine the trap pins spooled with the removed material filled in with lead. If I wanted to anneal the spring I would try directing the flame at the pins to transfer the heat effectively. The lead melts away binding the pins even worse. Then there's the fact that I would have lead dripping all over my torch nozzle. If you trap pinned every pin stack I doubt trying to transfer the heat through the lock body would be effective on the back pins so at that point annealing the springs would probably not be worth it.

Anyway sorry for the double posts but I don't stop thinking when I hit Submit and there's no edit button.

[n2oah]

As far as the trap pins go, they will be in every pin stack. I was also thinking of making one big "trap bar" that has fingers that slide into the plug.

[n2oah]

The new and improved design:



Changes:
Added pins that lock the trap pins into place
Cut back on anti-picking features
Zoomed in so you can see hatching on springs

TOWCH, where should I put the anti-heat protection?

[n2oah]

A new design incorperated into a mortise cylinder:

[Minion]

Just a question:

Would you be able to change the size of the top pins as well as the bottom pins?

Also, I noticed that you have only 1 stop pin in the side there, why not throw in 3 of those on each side?

Like, I notice how you have the key shaped (upside down t with grooves, no?)

well, why not throw in more pin lines along the different groove directions(versus just having that one, have two more facing different directions... on each side)

[n2oah]

There are 7 trap pins, as long as 7 pins that lock the trap pins into place.
On the Mortise cylinder, there will be 5 pins on a 45 degree angle.
I have yet to do a side view of the lock.

Change the size? Umm...I'm not sure what you are saying.
I explained to trap pins above.
The keyway? I randomly designed the keyway. I didn't have a particular design in mind when designing the keyway.

[n2oah]

I decided to lighten up on the trap pins. There will be trap pins on the first two stacks of pins, and the last two stacks of pins (they will still be on both sides) I decided to just get rid of the anti-drill plates, and make the whole lock body hardened (like abloy does).

I made a cross-section view of the pins. I also configured the pins in a high-low configuration. Should be a fun pick

[tshock]

I wanna see you pick a medeco. I have never seen anyone pick one. Are you still incorperating various spring stiffnesses?



--I pwn the weiser in 15 seconds