Dudley Combination Locks

[rayman452]

Whats worng with a drill press? I use it to make my pics which have opened an ABUS lock and THE CLUB. I used a metal bit and tried to drill through. The lock got real hot, theres a few holes in there, and its still not off yet. I dont have a metal file, only a wood one. Im sure there is a problem in the sticking gates, I just have to open mine up and find it.

[jim912]

My apologies for a lengthy absence from any activity in this thread, as well as for the now broken image links in my previous post. (I requested a moderator, with no response yet, to change the URLs for the images. Why is the harmless act of editing one's posts disallowed in these forums anyway?).

I will now post again the two images that were originally in my previous post, in addition to another one of just the artificial axis, in response to rayman452 (It's sadly blurred, but it's better than nothing; I also might have an anatomical image of the lock's other part coming soon):





Furthermore, I will explain two additional "tricks" that the majority of you may or may not be aware of already, but will surely be worth mentioning:

First of the pair is how to open a lock in reverse. Knowing how to do this goes a long way in helping to understand the arithmetic and mechanics of the disks. Obviously, prior knowledge of the combination is required. Since the notches have a width of 6 combination integers, we will have to change the first number by 12, the second by 6, and the third by 0 to compensate for the reverse direction. Regardless of which number it is, you always stop shy of your destination (when turning in reverse) - meaning that you add 12 to the first number, subtract 6 from the second, and leave the third unchanged.

The other technique involves knowing how closing locks work, and can be both useful and malevolent. If you can picture their insides in terms of how the dials are orientated, then you would see just how insecure the average locker actually is. Hardly ever is the user paranoid enough to turn the dial more than twice round, which resets all three dials (And renders any non-crude attempt to break it useless). Often, after people close their lock, they will (Knowing the mvoe-it-forward-6 trick) turn the dial less than a full rotation (It seems that 0 is a preferred spot for people with false senses of security) If that is the case, then fear not, for you simply turn back the dial about halfway (Far enough to give you a good bet while NOT disturbing the second disk), and from that point turn it clockwise in small increments and pulling the shackle each time. It seems to work better on some "brands" of Dudley locks than on others, for a reason perhaps coincidental in nature. To anyone thinking on experimenting with others' locks without their permission: Please don't, and even if you do, god hopes you don't use exploit such a trivial vulnerability to one’s own selfish desires.

[Orange_Crusader]

I wouldn't be so sure about that, jim. When I took the face off of my lock (blue dial), set the dials into an open position, opened the lock, and closed it, the lock mechanism gave the disks a spin, so they were scattered around the dial, not even close to the right spot. I know that the disks have some light pressure on them (from the spring behind them), but they would still spin enough to discourage most attempts to open them.

[jim912]

Orange_Crusader: I, for one, am quite sure. My own lock, which has a combination of approx. 35-15-30, is one that my second trick will successfully work on at least 60% of the time (It seems to be pretty random just which occasions on which it will work. It is a black dial, no shackle, and every time I close it, I conclude that only the front dial has turned (Counterclockwise 6), otherwise the trick will not have worked. Indeed, regardless of that's supposed to happen, when I close my lock the back two dials remain exactly intact. I then proceed to turn the dial to "noon" position, whereupon giving it a secure look, then turning it back halfway and testing each small interval, and this indeed works.

If the second dial is even touched, any chance of this ever working is lost. Not that avoiding contact with the second dial necessarily guarantees success. Depending on the value of the second combination number, you will have to either turn clockwise or counter-clockwise. Of course, if you do not know this value then either way you have a 50-50 chance. But then again, this also requires that when the lock was closed, the moving of the dial to the 0 position (if applicable) also didn't travel on the path that the second disc's notch stood on. Since this is also a 50-50 chance involving one's descision to either go clockwise or counterclockwise, your overall chance of success, given that only one dial moves on closure, is at most 25% (For my own lock, about 40% of the time it just fails for an unknown reason). Finding a lock of which only the front dial moes upon closure should be too hard, for mine happens to be of that type, as well as that of a friend's.

[TasTeTheRaiNboW]

Hi there guys, I'm new to picking combination locks, but I've been picking pintumbler and wafer locks for quite a wile. I read through your disscussions and understood most of it.

I tried finding the sticking points for my dudley lock. But, my lock has a BLACK knob. I informend myself at school, and found out that not all locks have combinations witch the 2nd numer is the smallest and the 3rd the biggest. However, I'm certain there is a correlation between the letter written on the back of the locks and the order of size of the comination numbers. All the locks at my school have blue knobs and all the locks I own have numbers that: 1st number is between the other 2. 2nd number is the smallest, and 3rd is the biggest.

Her are my combos : 15-4-45 22-0-39, and i forgot the other one.

Now, You guys mentionned that ther are arround 1000 possible combinations for each lock. I understood all that. But what I didn't, is that you guys say that when trying to crack the lock, the 3rd number is a given. How is it easy to find. Don't you need to know if the first 2 are good to know the 3rd, Please explain this to me in detail. Here are the stick points (or whatever you call them) for my lock (black knob):
2-5
8-11
14-17
20-23
26-29
32-35
38-41
44-47
50-53
56-59

And I do beleive that the number exactly in between the intervalls do work, i''ve tried substracting and/or adding 1 to all the numbers of my combo and they stil work. I don't know if it does that when its new though. Anyways, thnx for every thing, and i'd love to help.

[Orange_Crusader]

Ah, hat we meant by that the 3rd was a given, was that you had unlimited chances to try and get it, after putting in the first 2 numbers. The dial could be turned and numbers tried for as long as you like (I think, as long it doesn't disturb the other disks). It's not actually told to you (figuratively speaking), but it's fairly idiotproof.

Yep, you can go up and down from the combo numbers anywhere from 1-3, or 4 digits either way, and it should still work, since the gates are each about 6 digits wide (well, at the face, but in reality, they're much smaller. It's sort of "projected" from the centre, so it seems larger. That little feature lets us see very, very small difference in the numbers as much larger, and makes this possible, with funding from members like you. Call now and recieve a free PBS bookbag.... (yeah, got carried away with the PBS beg-a-thon talk).

Oh, and could you get the counter-clockwise points as well (assuming you went clowise to get the above points, then go the other way for the next ones). There should be about 4-5 points with different numbers, and those show the position of the false and real gates, which is more or less the stage we're in now, plus trying to figure out what the code on the bottom is for, besides ID'ing the lock. As for the letter, it may just be a batch or order identification tool, or it could be a hint as to what's inside the lock, we don't know (yet). If you'd like to join the "Dudley Cracking Club (the DCC ), feel free, we could always use a fresh insight into this, and some more help.

[TasTeTheRaiNboW]

ok, I'd be glad to help and join you're clud, as I said, i've got lots of experience with other types of locks. It has always been in my iunterest to find a way to crack Dudley and even Master locks. But for the master locks, there are already ways to do it.

Anyways, here are the stick points CCW for my Dudley lock (black knob)
2-5
8-11
14-17
20-23
26-29
32-35
38-41
44-47
50-53
56-59

Now, ther are some points were it almost reaches 4 number intervalls, but I'm not sure it would work.
Anyways, if you need anything esle or want info on other locks, I'l be glad to help. I don't know what else to do to crack the Dudley locks. thnx

[Tromboner]

Ok, I am a newbie at these things but I friend of mine just picked his masterlock (surprisingly easy once he showed me how) and all I have is dudleys so I have to give this a try.

ok, here are the numbers:

blue dial, letter on the back is E
RC 73972

CW
0.5-5
6.5-9.5
12.5-15
18.5-20.5
24.5-27.5
30.5-33.5
36.5-38.5
42.5-45.5
48.5-51.5
54.5-57.5

CCW
54.5-57.5
48.5-51.5
42.5-45.5
36.5-39.5
30-34.5
24.5-26.5
18.5-21.5
12.5-15.5
6.5-9.5
0.5-4.5

*note* this is a worn and beaten up lock. I bought it in 1996 and it has been carried around on my bag since then.

One thing that stands out in my numbers (if I have been reading the forum correctly) is that my CW and CCW numbers are very close. I don't know whether this is my fumbling fingers missing subtle hints or not.

Well, I hope that these numbers pose you with another challenge. Will keep reading along.

Good Luck

Tromboner

[rayman452]

Nah, they should be close. Ill be going to crack it in a while after I figure out how to fix my Mp3 player. Where are those freeking Install disks they ask for when you try and fix the thing? Apparently, their non-existant. Taste, I need the CCW points also to attempt a crack. Masterlocks are also easier then Dudleys BTW.

[Jephome]

here's another
if i did the sticky points correctly, they should be
0 -4
6 - 9
12 - 15
18 - 21
24 - 27
30 - 34
36 - 40
42 - 45
48 - 51
54 - 58

can anyone suggest a possible answer? havnt used this lock in liek 3 years now. and i forgot the combo.

[mr_edward_lee]

Here is my combination lock

Dudley with the BLUE Knob and BLUE Numbers.

Sticky Points

Clockwise

59-2
5-8
11-14
17-20
22.5-25.5
28-32
34-38
41-44
46.5-50.5
53-57

Counter Clock Wise

59-2
53-57
50-47
44-41
39-36
32-29
26-22
20-16
14-11
8-5

Combination: 43 - 25 - 50
Serial #: AK (8 or B or 6)07676

[TasTeTheRaiNboW]

Ok, rayman, I hadn't noticed that my CW and CCW points are the same, so i'll rewrite both CW and CCW but even with extra half digits. Here you go:

CW (same as before no half digits found)
2-5
8-11
14-17
20-23
26-29
32-35
38-41
44-47
50-53
56-59

CCW (with half numbers)

2.5 - 5
8 - 11
14 - 17.5
20 - 23
26.5 - 29.5
32.5 - 35.5
37.5 - 41
44 - 47
50 - 53
56 - 59

I'm not sure if there is mutch difference on the stick points from CW to CCW. But I can tell you that today I figured out the combo for this lock that I had forgotten. AN the numbers of the combo aren't near the different stick points from CCW to CW. Anyways, if you what the combo, tell me, I don't see how It could help you, u dont have my lock. ANd were do all you guys live, I can see that some of you are Canadians. I'm in montreal.

[Jephome]

o yeah. mine's a blue knob.
CW and CCW are the same give or take a digit.

[Jephome]

i also noticed that when the shackle is only slightly pulled out, not all the way so the dial cant turn at all. i notice that there's a sticky point at 35 and 40 and then its smooth sailing all aroudn till i hit those two points again goign CW.

when i got CCW the dial is smooth until it hits 17 and 12 and 6.

before noticing this i did vaguely remember that my combo started with a 35. maybe these stickies has some kind of connection.

[Sabin37]

Jephome, even a one number difference can help determine a number in the combination.

From the information in your last post and from my experiences, I will say that 35 is a good guess for your first number and your last number may be around 50.