Proposed Pin Tumbler Bypass Technique

[ThE_MasteR]

No

I think if I would have a laser I would just cut the shackle off, what about you ?

[illusion]

Presuming we are talking about padlocks of course, which I wasn't.

The idea is a concept - there are many ways to open lock, some better than others. The point of my speculation was not to find the best way, but to find ways which have not been thought of before.

Following your train of thought: why even bother with your idea of glue, when the Falle shim-wire decoder is the best technique there is upon pin cylinder locks? The answer is simply: the wish to find other ways, regardless of whether they are the best or not.

Oh yeah, and I am focussing upon non destructive techniques.

[ThE_MasteR]

Presuming we are talking about padlocks of course, which I wasn't.

The idea is a concept - there are many ways to open lock, some better than others. The point of my speculation was not to find the best way, but to find ways which have not been thought of before.

Following your train of thought: why even bother with your idea of glue, when the Falle shim-wire decoder is the best technique there is upon pin cylinder locks? The answer is simply: the wish to find other ways, regardless of whether they are the best or not.

Oh yeah, and I am focussing upon non destructive techniques.

I agree with what you said. Finding new ways to bypass anything is up to us to discover them.

[ThE_MasteR]

I found another idea, here it goes.

What if you just fill the cylinder with general THICK grease ?it's going to go in between the top and bottom pins, creating the shear line..

The only flaw I found is that some locks are opened in the back, so all the grease would just go there and finish by coming out of any path it find outside of the lock.

Still an interesting idea...maybe if you can block all the holes first then do it..?

Comments please.

[illusion]

No... I imagine both pins would be lifted simultaneously, so it wouldn't work as you'd hope. If you could block every outlet then you could indeed fill the lock, but the grease would cause more problems than it solves perhaps.

If you could find a way to apply the grease directly in the gap between the pins, then the top pins could be lifted possibly... The tiny amount of space allowed allongside the pins would make this very difficult, if not impossible.

[ThE_MasteR]

OK, not good.

[illusion]

The only way to access the top pin independently is either through the tiny space between the pin and the chamber, or through the bottom pin by creating a hole manualy.

I had an idea the other night, but found it wouldn't work. I'll write it to perhaps stimulate.

We know that the way to decode pins without using weight techniques revolves around feeling for the gap between the top and bottom pins. I noticed the '#1' picks in my falle sets had no tips, and one even had a chisel type end. On some locks you can see the top pin, on top of the bottom pins by merely looking at the first pin stack, and this is because the bottom pin isn't very tall. If every bottom pin in the lock was relatively small you could insert the '#1' pick and feel for the join without needing to mess about going along-side the pins. This would give, with a lot of pratice a constructable key.

Of course , if the join was hiden inside the chamber(As would be the case with a high pin) then the technique would not work as effectively.

Dunno if this gave any inspiration.

[Exodus5000]

I like the creative ideas that are coming out of this, makes me feel like my thread wasn't just a lot of hot air. There are two points that I think particularly make my theory flawed, the fact that not all pins tend to want to bind equally above the shear line, and security bottom pins would make this method a lot more difficult (not to mention that there's no real good binding method discovered yet.)

Maybe a better idea rather than using a glue and rod, would be to over set and then pull down individual pins with a modified tweezer-type device. The aforementioned problems would still apply, but the problem of a binding agent is removed.

[ThE_MasteR]

[quote="Exodus5000"]I like the creative ideas that are coming out of this, makes me feel like my thread wasn't just a lot of hot air. There are two points that I think particularly make my theory flawed, the fact that not all pins tend to want to bind equally above the shear line, and security bottom pins would make this method a lot more difficult (not to mention that there's no real good binding method discovered yet.)

Maybe a better idea rather than using a glue and rod, would be to over set and then pull down individual pins with a modified tweezer-type device. The aforementioned problems would still apply, but the problem of a binding agent is removed.[/quoteYou would have to start with the back pin first.

[Gordon Airporte]

If you were drilling up through a pin you'd have find some way of keeping it from rotating freely in the chamber with the bit...drilling off-center is probably best. Or use lasers
Of course, if you're drilling pins, you could just drill through all of them from the front, as high in the keyway as possible, then repeat until there's noting but springs at the shear line, which could be plucked out. That's pretty messy and brutal though.

[What]

well i was bored tonight so i decided to try Exodus5000's original idea.

it worked perfectly twice then the carbon fiber rod i was using got too coated with super glue.

all you need is to file out some "cups" in the rod to sit the pins in.

[ThE_MasteR]

well i was bored tonight so i decided to try Exodus5000's original idea.

it worked perfectly twice then the carbon fiber rod i was using got too coated with super glue.

all you need is to file out some "cups" in the rod to sit the pins in.

You actually opened the lock with his method ??

[Exodus5000]

well i was bored tonight so i decided to try Exodus5000's original idea.

it worked perfectly twice then the carbon fiber rod i was using got too coated with super glue.

all you need is to file out some "cups" in the rod to sit the pins in.

Holy crap. What kind of lock was it? Making cups would create more surface area to bind to.

[ThE_MasteR]

well i was bored tonight so i decided to try Exodus5000's original idea.

it worked perfectly twice then the carbon fiber rod i was using got too coated with super glue.

all you need is to file out some "cups" in the rod to sit the pins in.

Holy crap. What kind of lock was it? Making cups would create more surface area to bind to.

I was thinking of that, but seemed to demanding.

[What]

You actually opened the lock with his method ??

yes

Holy crap. What kind of lock was it? Making cups would create more surface area to bind to.

i tried it on two differently keyed mortice cylinders made by american lock co.

it worked twice on each(after refiling the "cups") but the locks do get pretty gummed up. nothing some acetone didnt fix though.