safe cracking?

by **marso** » 7 Feb 2004 20:53

Why are you not giving the model numbers etc.. ? As we said before, safe might not be a toy but the locking mech might be.

Btw it is not picking it is manipulating, unless it also has a key. What type of key is it?

by **Mad Mick** » 7 Feb 2004 21:28

benoit, nobody replying to this post is saying that they don't believe you. (Explicitly)

What they are saying, is for $250, this safe can not be considered to be of 'high quality'. I think chucklz was trying to be diplomatic with you. Personally, for the asking price of $250 for your safe, versus the price of my Snap-on toolboxes at work (approx $4,500), I'd take my chances with the toolboxes, which have 2 tubular locks.

You could do yourself a favour, by taking the opinions of other users, without treating those opinions as 'flames'.

You could also refrain from insulting other users, from whom you may want to seek advice from in the future.

If you have any info on this particular safe, please post what you have, and maybe some safe technician out there may be able to relate to what you've experienced with this model, and help you if you decide to choose safe work as a career.

This post is by no means a flame. If you want to get along on this forum, please take constructive criticism as just that, and not a personal attack.

by **Phobia** » 20 Feb 2004 5:09

i have recently found a safe with an abloy disk lock(homemade)
you think your all good locksmiths try busting an abloy 231 padlock with no hassles (we used a 231 padlockfo r the safe) other than that cracking safes involves an 18v cordless and knowledge of where to put the bloody thing

by **CitySpider** » 20 Feb 2004 5:39

Phobia wrote:you think your all good locksmiths try busting an abloy 231 padlock with no hassles

Just for the record, I don't think I'm a good locksmith. I don't think I'm a locksmith at all, actually.

by **Chucklz** » 20 Feb 2004 11:48

I've avoided posting here again, mainly because I want to keep all the "mush" in my head. I do need that stuff for my day job in Molecular biology/immunology. But, I would like to say that for many safes, especially ones that people rig up themselves, attacking the big bad lock on it is usually the longest, hardest way into the safe.

by **David_Parker** » 20 Feb 2004 15:42

A Master Padlock can be shot with a shotgun, and still remained locked.

...but everyone here seems to be able to pick them open. WTF?

UL listings are the way to go. Just because a lock can withstand a 9mm, and some 'flames' doesn't mean its that great. Masters system is built off of laminated padlocks, which adds great strength. However, do they're inner mehcanisms increase? Negetive.

UL listings are the way to go. I've gone after several padlocks with a blow torch, only to fail. The fact that you can pick it, and read the combo off of sound should be enough to say that your safe sucks.

-Dave.

by **salzi684** » 20 Feb 2004 16:40

Mad Mick, $4,500 for tool boxes? Why do they cost so much?

Just a question for everyone. I don't know much about safes, but I have never heard of one being made out of reinforced concrete. Why would they even bother?

by **Chubby** » 20 Feb 2004 17:15

benoit :

the site showed videos and photos of the safe in its 30 trials of testing....
my safe withstanded a variety of things like eing shot by a 9mm and being scorched by flames..

The link for that site please...

by **David_Parker** » 20 Feb 2004 17:22

Pardon my poorly written paragraphs.

-Dave.

by **Chucklz** » 20 Feb 2004 19:16

I really dont want to start a fight here, so I've been hoping that the answers to some of these questions would be posted. What "government orginization [sic]" rates safes on a star system? UL certainly doesn't. I guess you could equate TL15, and TL30 etc, into some kind of rating system for the benefit of consumers (or the army for that matter), but the results are certainly not reported in that manner.

UL testing involves intelligently planned attack by skilled individuals. Some "flames" are certainly not an intelligently planned attack. Cutting torches, plasma cutters, thermite, thermic lances are reasonable methods of entry, if used correctly. Here is a bit of an explination of some UL standards.
Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.
Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.
TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.
TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.
TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.
TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.

Now about the "tests" you report:
9mm..... A garbage dumpster can easily withstand 9mm rounds, and its used to store garbage. Class B safes generally have 1/4 steel bodies. That will stop a wide range of bullets, but yet offers only limited security.

I could generate 30 "severe" looking tests, that even a Sentry Safe would pass with flying colors. Besides shooting it, and heating it up with a torch, I could show its resistance to things like some acids, smacking with a hammer, dropping it from a predetmined height, applying drills in simply ineffectual positions, angle grinders, again in spots that simply wouldnt cause an opening.

And simply, as before, where is the website that showed these videos? And of course, how trustworthy are they? I know of some great websites that will give you all kinds of information on things like Inertial Drives, and "Vacuum Energy Harnessing" devices.... Your website probably contains equally reliable information.

benoit, about your comment that if i think "its a toy, go get a safe yourself". I simply do not understand what point you are attempting to make here. If I thought it was of poor quality, why would I spend $250 on it?

by **Mad Mick** » 20 Feb 2004 20:13

Mad Mick, $4,500 for tool boxes? Why do they cost so much?

Salzi, you didn't actually ask how many I have. For the record, I have approximately $30,000 worth of mechanic's tools, which reside in both a very large top chest and a very large rolling cabinet (one tubular lock each). In addition to those (which I omitted to state), I also have a rolling service cart and a static storage cabinet.

I still hear you asking about the prices. In any profession, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap, buy more than once. Buy the best and you get a lifetime guarantee against failure.

by **salzi684** » 20 Feb 2004 22:25

"I still hear you asking about the prices. In any profession, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap, buy more than once. Buy the best and you get a lifetime guarantee against failure."

Well said.

by **unclepappy** » 21 Feb 2004 1:42

Man this has to be one of the crappiest off topic posts I have ever seen. I can't believe that you guys went off on a tangent like this. This is about safes. You know what. I don't know of a whole lot of metals that know how to stop diamond bits guys. If you have a safe.. and a diamond bit.. and your drill points.. and your strong arm.. *(and if it's a big safe)... your diamond bits.. and more diamond bits. Or a tonne of regular bits and a sharpener. You will in fact be a long way there to drilling your safe. Sure you may have to drill relockers and such. But you will get in. But. you know what. I think the person who started this thread wanted to know a bit more about manipulation. Dude if you need any more info give me a tell. Let this thread die.

by **CitySpider** » 21 Feb 2004 2:09

This thread was dead, actually, nearly two weeks worth of dead, but I've noticed that new users tend to dredge up old threads. This is good, because it means they're searching; this is not good, because people don't notice or don't care.

As for it being off topic -- I guess next time we should start an "Argument With Benoit" thread? Sometimes threads drift. It's the nature of the medium. Not really a big deal.

by **RedMcSwede** » 21 Feb 2004 2:28

applause to dave and chucklz...very nice pieces of info on the UL ratings of safes...if this thread can turn into anything it can turn into an informative thread for those who would like to know more about safes and thier attack resistance...i'm new to the board but have enjoyed reading all the post writen...sometimes a disargeement can be an extremely valuable learning experience...those who truely are interested in how the device works may be encouraged to investigate the matter more in depth...the only thing that i would add about the UL rating is the deffinition of "net working time"...as far as i've been taught the clock doesn't start till the drill bit touches the door...after the tools have been unpacked and the rig has been set up...then every time the drill bit hits ball bearings (or any other material in the construction of the door) that twist and snap the bits the clock is stopped until the actual drill bit starts working on the door again...another bit of info is that UL receives 2 safes from the company...the first one is torn down and studied even before the rating test begins...these guys know what they're doing...it may actually be a few hours before they get it opened...anyways...this is a great group...as of now i'm working with a locksmith who's been in business for over 30 years...i've also learned a lot from many of you here also...thanks for everything..."pick on"

safe cracking?

Not only that.

My english

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