The Next Phase of Bumping - 'Spring-Bumping'

[SmokieD]

I can see this idea implemented into some kind of automatic bumping devise. Something that would look as professional as a pick gun when used by a locksmith.

To add pick guns are overatted and usually crap. They are useful in chipping the pins which warms up the lock and makes it easier to pick. The only real use other than that is for someone whos lazy or tired from holding their arm up to pick locks. Like an electric toothbrush is to brushing teeth, you dont really need it.

And bumping doesnt require at much effort as picking usually does.

Not to call you out though, Im sure you already know this

[ukbumpkeys]

Here's some reasons why I use a spring. I'd also like to point out that I can to bump locks easier, I deliberately selected locks for the vid that were otherwise tricky to bump.
The main reason is (and was touched on above) is the 'reverse' bump' allowing you a bump on the way out, this just makes sense, 2 for one hit so to speak, and also, you do not have to reset the key each time, it does it for you. In terms of length of spring, I use from 3mm to about 10.
regards

[jimb]

To add pick guns are overatted and usually crap. They are useful in chipping the pins which warms up the lock and makes it easier to pick. The only real use other than that is for someone whos lazy or tired from holding their arm up to pick locks. Like an electric toothbrush is to brushing teeth, you dont really need it.

And bumping doesnt require at much effort as picking usually does.

Not to call you out though, Im sure you already know this

Ok I'm out I agree pick guns are crap, but they sell and some people like them.

Some locksmiths here have admitted they will bump a lock on a lockout. I'm one of those and it's usually not my first choice. There are several reasons I might use a bump key and I won't go into those reasons now, unless you want to call me out

Several months ago I attempted to build an automatic bumping devise. It was heavy and ugly but it did work. You can find it here.
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=14010&highlight=
If something like this could be developed into a good working tool then it would give the locksmith something that would look professional rather than sticking a key into a lock and hitting it with the handle of a screwdriver. This tool would also work better and faster than the commercially available pick guns and electric picks.

[ukbumpkeys]

Loads of Lokkies over here use bumping as their first technique, we also promote 'Swing and Clip' bumping where you barely touch the key, causing no damage at all. Also, you don't need to hit it with the handle of a screw driver, there are plenty of bump-hammers on the market, Peterson do one, there's the Tomahawk, our LOXWAT. and some other one that comes in a sort of penis enlargement tube thingy. I sense a bit of bumping blues and wonder why the technique is regarded with a little suspicion, possibly much like other lock-picking devices once were.
My views on pick-guns are they rip the lock apart, even with spring bumping, the actual impact, force and contact area is all very minimal and doesn't cause as much damage as a lot of people suppose. Swing and clip does no damage whatsoever, and a little traditional tap from behind is negligible. Sure, if it doesn;t work in a few minutes move on, but if it does, the advantages are obvious, and as you improve this time will shrink and shrink. I can bump most locks (if I have the profile) in about 5 attempts (5&6 pin tumblers) and many of the pro locksmiths on my site have about the same success, hence it becoming a significant part of their non-destructive entry techniques. For a pic of our bump-hammer see our forum. I'll get a pic up here once I've found pics of the other ones mentioned
regards
Chris

[raimundo]

The forum is about lockpicking, and the members have lockpicks, which more or less apply to most locks without being limited by keyways, many of the people here are pick hobbiests, and do not have the key machines to make bump keys. for a locksmith it is not a problem to make up a bump key when you encounter a new keyway.l
So, yes, the method is a quick opening if you have the right bumpkey for the keyway, But the lockpickers get their satisfaction from feeling out the pin sets. neither method invalidates the other, but you may be doing it for commercial lockouts while the pickers are doing it for other reasons altogether.

[ukbumpkeys]

In the UK you can go into pretty much any key-cutter and buy whatever blanks you want. Then, with one round or square needle file you can make any bump key you want. I had a set of both angled and radiused bump keys in 5 depths in 12 profiles before I even got near a cutter. Like most things they're quite simple to make if you put your mind to it, or, you pay someone a couple of quid to do it for you regardless of hobbyist or pro.
I still cut from master and not code so I can have differing bump patterns, three in fact.
A set of vernier callipers are also a good idea but not essential.
Where does lock-picking end and bumping begin, they're both part of a bigger thing, non-destructive entry; it just gets me that it's looked down on somewhat.
ukbk

[toomush2drink]

Ok a few points have been raised firstly bumping isnt the first choice of many uk pro locksmiths, an option yes but not first choice.Secondly pickguns arent crap as stated they work extremely well especially the wendt gun. Bumping is so easily defeated by fitting a decent lock like an evva gpi, with 36000 different key profiles how on earth is anyone going to have time to bump one of those going through the blanks ? In central london insurance companies are insisting on locks from the evva range or banham or they wont insure you.Try getting hand picks in evva keyways,they are a nightmare but a pickgun can do them.
I agree that this thread does contain elements of spamming and advertising yet nobody seems to care ?

Where does lock-picking end and bumping begin, they're both part of a bigger thing, non-destructive entry; it just gets me that it's looked down on somewhat.
ukbk

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Well lockpicking requires a great deal of skill and practice bumping doesnt take much skill.Also if you get caught walking around at night (in the uk) with a set of lockpicks you are in big trouble with the law unless you have good reasons but a bump key can go unnoticed. Bump keys are getting used in breakins and in areas like dartford,kent ive attended a few. People should be worried ive seen a few "breakins" now with no visble damage etc so it is definately happening.The local locksmiths have also reported having people come in the shop asking for 100 bump keys to be cut, is that a good sign especially in the area of the breakins ?Ive also attended a lot of breakins through the front door so where is this 2% figure from ? Most flats only have a front door so its the door of choice by default.

[zeke79]

I have let the advertising bit go so far as it seems to be a civil conversation at this point.

I too agree with you toomush, a good EPG is a great tool to have. They do take practice and that may be why people dismiss them so easy.

[dab]

SmokieD wrote:
To add pick guns are overatted and usually crap. They are useful in chipping the pins which warms up the lock and makes it easier to pick. The only real use other than that is for someone whos lazy or tired from holding their arm up to pick locks. Like an electric toothbrush is to brushing teeth, you dont really need it.

And bumping doesnt require at much effort as picking usually does.

Not to call you out though, Im sure you already know this

It is my experience that NO MATTER what locksmith tool you are talking about, if you say it's crap you either bought the cheap version or you don't know how to use it. Ignorance is this downfall of a skilled trade.

[ukbumpkeys]

Has anyone got any evidence that domestic robbery has risen since the easy availability of bump-keys? As lock-pickers you'll know how easy it is to enter a property destructively or otherwise, regardless of any available tools.
I don't understand why the attitude is so negative towards bumpkeys, there's plenty of people who feel the same about picking, surely you must have the moral debate everytime it comes up? "What, there's websites about lock-picking? That's a bit worrying isn't it?" etc.
We can argue all night about 'many' uk locksmiths using bumpkeys first, the one's that I know - usually by definition of me supplying them keys - say it's their first trick. If 'many' of the locksmiths you know don't have it as first choice then we know different locksmiths, which isn't really surprising.

So some London insurance companies insist on certain locks. So you're saying bump-keys have limits. Who ever thought otherwise?
Do you have to keep referring to Dartford, we get it, I live there. And the bloke going into locksmiths shops in Dartford asking for 100 bumpkeys to be cut was probably me before I got my machine. And how rude they were too (apart from the 6 I worked with regularly)
regards
chris

[ukbumpkeys]

When I said where does lock-picking end and bumping begin, I meant in as much as it's part of the same area. The fact that a bump key might go unnoticed 'at night' and picks wouldn't, doesn't really change that.
In terms of the difference in skill level required. Surely that depends how good you want to become at either practice. I bought a set of picks when I was 20 and was opening cylinders that night. It took me three weeks to make a bump-key work, that's after three weeks learning how to make them.
I didn't say pick-guns were crap, I find they cause a lot of damage.
I don;t need to advertise on this site, google does it for me.
regards
chris

[bumpit]

think the question for the OP is why is this addition necessary?

Bump keys alone seem to work fine

Why is a pick gun necessary? Picks seemed to work fine before. Everyone is looking for the majic opening tool. Like Harry Potter

[xnoobandrew]

Either they are criminals, or they're want to be.

The main reason I join Lp101 other then getting help, is discussing how much USA security sucks out loud, and sharing tips to help other locksmiths/ls enthusiasts.

Many people only register to get access to the forums, to see that the target lock is easy to pick, and in doing so they want to do it faster and faster.

(Of course, so they don't get caught, or they don't get pulled over a cop)

Thats how the world works, atleast the technology. Our computers used to run of AOL, and we thought it was FAST! Now comcast is like lightning to us.

[SmokieD]

SmokieD wrote:
To add pick guns are overatted and usually crap. They are useful in chipping the pins which warms up the lock and makes it easier to pick. The only real use other than that is for someone whos lazy or tired from holding their arm up to pick locks. Like an electric toothbrush is to brushing teeth, you dont really need it.

And bumping doesnt require at much effort as picking usually does.

Not to call you out though, Im sure you already know this

It is my experience that NO MATTER what locksmith tool you are talking about, if you say it's crap you either bought the cheap version or you don't know how to use it. Ignorance is this downfall of a skilled trade.

Let me rephrase this, overrated and usually unnecessary. If you reallly want one you can make it out of an electric toothbush rather than paying $$$ online.

[gareth]

Lads I totally agree with Chris on this. At the end of the day get the client in with the minimum amount of fuss. It doesn't matter if it's not picking as we all use mica and what does that look like?