Making an unpickable Lock

[scientist]

...makes me feel kinda special and warm inside too

-sCi

[HeadHunterCEO]

Nice idea head hunter. More creative than I could be. The only problem I can see coming into play is the fact that once knowledge spreads about this lock design, people would begin to realize that the only have to pick the last section of the lock, as that's where the bolting mechanism is attached to the locking mechanism. It's still a good idea though, especially if you want to pull pranks on a couple of your picking buddies

ya it would be a poor production run idea but great for giving to an uppity buddy to cool his jets!

[Pheniox]

unless you made some kind of bar that had to go though all 3 plugs for the cylinder to turn. have a button you push on the front to make the bar attempt to go though all 3 plugs?

[ReverseLogic]

that's what I was thinking phoenix. Maybe something of a sidebar?

[eric343]

Varjeal, what you're talking about is essentially a serrated pin chamber. For greater effectiveness, you would also thread the pins themselves.

This technique is already used in high security locks. If I remember correctly, it is quite effective.


Regarding the construction of an unpickable lock, the closest thing to an unpickable lock today is the Evva magnetic disc lock. Essentially, the lock uses a series of magnetic disks mounted so that the flat sides are parallel to the key. The key contains similar magnetic disks.

When the key is inserted into the lock, the magnetic discs that are fixed in the key cause the magnetic discs in the lock to align with the magnetic discs in the key.

The discs in the lock have notches in the side that does not face the key. When the correct key is inserted, the discs in the lock align such that the notches allow pins projecting from the sidebar to enter the notches, and the sidebar retracts from the plug. The lock then opens.


As far as I know, there exists no way to pick or decode this lock. I have one theory, however it's really beyond the scope of this forum.

[kehveli]

with a fine blade on a jig saw or chop saw cut the plug into three pieces inbetween the cuts every 2 and then reassemble the lock.

applying tension to the cylinder would only be applying tension to the first two pins because they are now independent to the rest of the plug.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be just so that you could just tension & pick the last part of the lock (third piece) to open the lock. Hope I understood you correctly.

[HeadHunterCEO]

with a fine blade on a jig saw or chop saw cut the plug into three pieces inbetween the cuts every 2 and then reassemble the lock.

applying tension to the cylinder would only be applying tension to the first two pins because they are now independent to the rest of the plug.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be just so that you could just tension & pick the last part of the lock (third piece) to open the lock. Hope I understood you correctly.

sure you could

[kehveli]

I'm not sure if you understood me correctly. My point was that you need only to pick the last part of the lock (3 pins or so), because on most locks the locking mechanism is linked to the back of the lock (deep end of the cylinder).

[WhiteHat]

The discs in the lock have notches in the side that does not face the key. When the correct key is inserted, the discs in the lock align such that the notches allow pins projecting from the sidebar to enter the notches, and the sidebar retracts from the plug. The lock then opens.
As far as I know, there exists no way to pick or decode this lock. I have one theory, however it's really beyond the scope of this forum.

I read some stuff somewhere on magnetic picks - at the time, I put it in the Way Too Hard basket. I'd imagine that it would have to be electromagnetic so that when moving the pick arround, you don't disturb the alread "set" disks. can't imagine how many possible combinations this would have. and what's to say that there is no tool that can't move the disks manually (unless there's a separating piece of plastic or something.

[ReverseLogic]

I'm not sure if you understood me correctly. My point was that you need only to pick the last part of the lock (3 pins or so), because on most locks the locking mechanism is linked to the back of the lock (deep end of the cylinder).

Yeah we understood you. If you look at the bottom of page two and top of page three, we discuss this flaw. You've got the right thought process for this, though. I'm currently trying to find a way to make it so all three sections have to turn, while still maintaining their independant sections. I was currently thinking of some type of sidebar like mechanism, although my knowlege of sidebars is admittedly quite limited. See if you can think of anything Kehveli. I'm sure you'll think of something great.

[kehveli]

You've got the right thought process for this, though.
...
See if you can think of anything Kehveli. I'm sure you'll think of something great.

Thanks for your courtesy, RL. A totally different (from yours) design came to my mind in few minutes of thinking, so it must have flaws, so feel free to point these out to me.

Here's my design:

[ReverseLogic]

Nice design. It would actually be fairly effecient. I'm curious as to how the binder would interact with the pins. Would the binder be just a modification to the cylinder, or would it be a separate piece of the lock? If the latter, what mechanism would move the binder into posistion? If the former, how would you get the binder to bind on the dimples without obstructing the movement of the pins during regular operation (with a key)? All in all it sounds like it's more secure than a standard kwikset. Let me know some more details.

[WhiteHat]

this design is similar to the Bilock. except there's two rows of pins and two "binders" (sidebars). unfortunately due to practical reasons, the pins can only fit four holes or dimples, but they can have half-holes to make the sidebars false set.

http://www.bilock.net/bilok/newgen.htm

[scientist]

What got me started on this was an old document I found in my family history from my grandfather, who was a locksmith

You have a plate with holes coming down it. In each one of these holes is what amounts to a glorified rivet. You put the key in, and start turning. The key catchs onto the bottom of this plate, and different serrations raise the pins different heights. These pins go through holes in a spring loaded plate to activate a mechanism

If the key is wrong, it will still turn, only pushing this plate effectively locking up the mechanism.

Key will always turn, and if oiled right you cant tell the difference between a right and a wrong "sheer line"

-sCi

[mr lockpickman]

there is a real bad pickture i jus thought of and made b4 school

it has 'dummy pins' at the top, so if the person didn't know much about locks, (or that lock) they could be there for a while

and the actual pins are at the bottom, at a very sharp and deep(goes down a bit) 90 degree angle

it is not in anyway unpickable, but if the 'picker' didn't really know what he/she was doin, it might fool them

and you would prabably need a tool not encluded in the 'pickers' workbox


(to put the key in there is a narrow tall keyhole, so you slide it in at the top, and when the key's fully in, you push down and set the pins in'turning position'