Kwickset SmartKey: How to Pick

[globallockytoo]

I've yet to see a video on youtube of a smartkey lock picked. Let's put 'em up guys! If there are videos of Medecos being picked, surely someone can post one of this lock being picked. Personally, I'm enamored by them and have them on every external door on my house for convenience reasons (my siblings are always losing their keys and it makes it a heck of a lot easier to re-key).

For all the hatred of Kwikset, I have to give them some credit. They're stumping most of us at nde attempts, and they are an affordable bump-proof (resistant?) lock. Furthermore, they have strategically located anti-drill ball bearings.

The lack of this kind of stuff has consternated us for years, and now it's within Joe Sixpack's reach. Kwikset has finally done what we've been complaining about for years and I still hear whining from many members on the forum.

It's no Medeco or Abloy, but I would venture to say they have revolutionized the affordable lock industry and made it so that destructive entry will continue to be the primary means of entry of criminals.

We should take pride in the fact that our promulgation of the ease in which most locks can be compromised has made the industry take note, and more importantly, take action.

Let's give credit where credit is due.

Look for an article in Issue 5 of NDE We think they're pretty neat too.

The problem, as I see it, is this product is a locksmith industry killer. It is not about producing a better product. It's about helping maintain an industry that has helped to build their business.

Making a lock that does not require a locksmith to recode bypasses a locksmiths services and will cause other services to increase in price.

The likelihood of locksmiths continuing to sell or even service their product will drop.

This might make you happy.....but when you need to have your lock changed and you go to a locksmith for new keys, so you can change the lock yourself......you will have to pay considerably more for the new keys ....to make up for the potential loss of business.

If it were me and a customer came in wanting new keys....random....I would charge $55.00 minimum for those keys.....why should I encourage the loss of business.

[fugi]

because it's progress. it's desirable to automate tasks that were previously labor or time intensive, while maintaining a low cost.

[Safety0ff]

The problem, as I see it, is this product is a locksmith industry killer. It is not about producing a better product. It's about helping maintain an industry that has helped to build their business.

Making a lock that does not require a locksmith to recode bypasses a locksmiths services and will cause other services to increase in price.

The likelihood of locksmiths continuing to sell or even service their product will drop.

Do you think a such boycott would make any difference to Kwikset? I don't think you're looking at the BIG picture.

Also do many locksmiths sell Kwikset? I think that the big retail stores sell more Kwikset than lockies do.

This might make you happy.....but when you need to have your lock changed and you go to a locksmith for new keys, so you can change the lock yourself......you will have to pay considerably more for the new keys ....to make up for the potential loss of business.

How many average consumer will do that? Many times it makes more economic sens to have a lockie rekey the lock.
There's an alternative to this as well, ____ _____ sells pin kits + keys in Kwikset, Schlage and Weiser flavors.

And really, did anyone make a stink about safe's and combination locks being able to be changed with a change key?

If it were me and a customer came in wanting new keys....random....I would charge $55.00 minimum for those keys.....why should I encourage the loss of business.

Fail... they sell random keys at ____ _____, and they can copy them there as well.

I think that over charging "to compensate" is shooting yourself in the foot, you'd be discouraging that customer from doing business with you. You should be pleased that after all that that the customer is still coming to you. If they choose to walk away from that, do you think they'll be taking your business card or calling you if they need your services? Probably not, I think that an aware customer would go to the next lockie capable of doing the job at a price they agree with.

...to make up for the potential loss of business.

On this point, why don't you start a class action suit against Kwikset to compensate for the potential loss of business the Smartkey is causing.

Note: The name of the well known hardware store was removed because I'm not advertising.

This is just my opinion at this time, I could be wrong...

[Beyond]

The problem, as I see it, is this product is a locksmith industry killer. It is not about producing a better product. It's about helping maintain an industry that has helped to build their business.

Just like the UChange killed the industry?

Great logic.

I've actually seen an increase in business at my shop because people consistently mess the re-keys up and bring them to us to reset them or repair them.

Making a lock that does not require a locksmith to recode bypasses a locksmiths services and will cause other services to increase in price.

Haha, I'd like to see a company that has THAT huge of a market hold.

The likelihood of locksmiths continuing to sell or even service their product will drop.

You base this off of what? One new product?

This might make you happy.....but when you need to have your lock changed and you go to a locksmith for new keys, so you can change the lock yourself......you will have to pay considerably more for the new keys ....to make up for the potential loss of business.

A majority of locksmiths diversify their services to prevent this "trickle down" effect.

If it were me and a customer came in wanting new keys....random....I would charge $55.00 minimum for those keys.....why should I encourage the loss of business.

Charge $55.00 so another locksmith company can profit from your stupidity.....

Smart.

[lockedin]

because it's progress. it's desirable to automate tasks that were previously labor or time intensive, while maintaining a low cost.

Amen.

Should we should remain in the stone age because someone's taking a hit? Innovation sometimes comes at a cost, the smart locksmith will find ways around it. The others will flounder

Go ahead and raise the cost of copying keys, everyone will then go to hardware stores.

Re-keying is just one aspect of the business. Unless your business consists exclusively of a key-cutting kiosk you should be ok.

[fsdhy]

These locks have been around here for way over a year now, since they were tested on the Canadian market before they decided to sell in the US. Except they are sold as Weiser smartkey.

At last year's TAOL meeting, we had a Kwikset/Weiser factory egineer come down and hand out free reset cradles. Shortly after Home Depot started to sell these locks, local door & glass companies started using them as the default lock on all new doors.

Needless to say, I have seen quite a few of these now. Let me share a few things I have noticed:

First of all, people in my trade screamed "just another Powerbolt", it will die. It has not died, and it is obvious they will be around for a while. Kwikset/Weiser has somehow managed to get these things DEEP into the market.

Second of all, these things are NOT hurting locksmiths. In fact, at a recent dinner with a few of my friends, we came to the conclusion that these things are BETTER for business. For a few reasons:
1. They break... A LOT. Especially in the winter. All it takes is one time for the customer to put in the wrong key and give it a bit of a nudge... Bent wafer... Smoked lock. "I need a locksmith"
2. The customer does not even know these things are meant so that they can rekey it themselves. The customer has promptly lost the "change tool" and does not even notice the tiny hole beside the keyway. I have not met one single customer with a "smartkey" key on their keychain who knows that they can recombinate this lock themself.
3. Another hit against the self-rekeying is that these things take a Kwikset keyway. At least around here, we see a hell of a lot more Weiser and Schlage than Kwikset. The likelihood of a customer being able to match all the locks in his house, by himself, is slim to none.
4. Did I mention these things break.... A lot?!?!

And my final and most important point....
5. Lockouts. These things make me TONS of money on a lockout. Currently, I'm running at about a 5% success rate for picking (don't laugh... I pick outside, in the dark freezing cold... not on a bench). Also, the 32-key try out set damages the lock to the point of needing new wafers. When the try out set doesn't work, and I have to resort to the other method of popping these things... Well, that takes time. And the more time it takes, the more money I make.


So, on behalf of all locksmiths who have gotten to know these locks fairly well over the last year, let me be the first to thank Kwikset/Weiser for boosting my business!!!

[Eyes_Only]

I've never ran into a home lockout situation with these locks YET but the first thing I would inform the customer about these locks if I get such a call is how easy it is to force open and break these locks and that their front door security has been reduced by 50% from their previous locks and anyone that has access to the internet can go online to find the "how-to's" to break in their homes.

At that point I'll sell them a better lock and after getting the OK from the customer I'll force open the lock, remove and install a better lock like a Schlage, make more money and do the customer a huge favor.

[fsdhy]

I've never ran into a home lockout situation with these locks YET but the first thing I would inform the customer about these locks if I get such a call is how easy it is to force open and break these locks and that their front door security has been reduced by 50% from their previous locks and anyone that has access to the internet can go online to find the "how-to's" to break in their homes.

At that point I'll sell them a better lock and after getting the OK from the customer I'll force open the lock, remove and install a better lock like a Schlage, make more money and do the customer a huge favor.

9/10 times on a smartkey lockout, the lock will be SMOKED no matter which method you choose to gain entry, anyway. I don't think you really need to massage them with a story about them being less secure...

I tend to go with, what is IMHO, the truth... These locks are slightly more secure against NDE and provide about the same brute force resistance as a standard grade 2 lock. When the customer realizes the trouble you have to go through to get in, and sees the price of replacing it with something "high security", they usually go with a standard residential pin tumbler lockset anyway.

Oh, in passing, only once have I had an issue with a customer not believing that these things are hard to pick. He claimed I was a "phony" and said he was calling another locksmith who "can pick those without breaking my lock". I said okay, I handed him my phone, he called my competitor, who promptly quoted him a much higher fee than I was "to come and drill it". He was pretty apologetic after that

[fsdhy]

I've never ran into a home lockout situation with these locks YET but the first thing I would inform the customer about these locks if I get such a call is how easy it is to force open and break these locks and that their front door security has been reduced by 50% from their previous locks and anyone that has access to the internet can go online to find the "how-to's" to break in their homes.

At that point I'll sell them a better lock and after getting the OK from the customer I'll force open the lock, remove and install a better lock like a Schlage, make more money and do the customer a huge favor.

9/10 times on a smartkey lockout, the lock will be SMOKED no matter which method you choose to gain entry, anyway. I don't think you really need to massage them with a story about them being less secure...

I tend to go with, what is IMHO, the truth... I tell them I start with the least destructive methods, and progress to the most destructive. Their choice on having me skip directly to a foolproof method and saving time/money. I explain that these locks are slightly more secure against NDE and provide about the same brute force resistance as a standard grade 2 lock. When the customer realizes the trouble you have to go through to get in, and sees the price of replacing it with something "high security", they usually go with a standard residential pin tumbler lockset anyway.

Oh, in passing, only once have I had an issue with a customer not believing that these things are hard to pick. He claimed I was a "phony" and said he was calling another locksmith who "can pick those without breaking my lock". I said okay, I handed him my phone, he called my competitor, who promptly quoted him a much higher fee than I was "to come and drill it". He was pretty apologetic after that

[Schuyler]

At that point I'll sell them a better lock and after getting the OK from the customer I'll force open the lock, remove and install a better lock like a Schlage, make more money and do the customer a huge favor.

You have to be kidding me. They aren't SLIGHTLY better NDE protection. There's a friggin' reason you have to force open the lock. And as far as finding info online about breaking into their house "nudge nudge wink wink" the proliferation of bump information, which this lock is 100% resistant to, is much easier to find than DE tactics to force the smartkey.

And being that smartkey ends up in residential situations to begin with there's something worth keeping in mind - glass has a DE flaw too.

[maxxx]

Around here, the Homeless Depot sells the smartkey deadbolt for about $32. Not the cheapest, but not the highest. I installed one a few months ago, and my first impression was that its a good value and a better lock than anything in its price range. The facia reminds me of Baldwin.

Will Joe Q. average homeowner do the rekey thing? I highly doubt it. Too complicated. Too much percieved risk ( I hope I don't screw it up and have to buy another lock. )

Sure, some people may try to rekey it, and maybe even go into a local lockie shop to get a set of keys to change it out and seek a little advice, but I wouldn't hammer them. As mentioned, if they came in to the shop, at least they came in.

We have yet to see how durable this lock design is in the real world, three or four years down the road it may be a different story.

I give Kwikset points for the design theory and price point.

[Schuyler]

There is a second gen coming out as well. Some improvements coming down the pipeline.

[Eyes_Only]

At that point I'll sell them a better lock and after getting the OK from the customer I'll force open the lock, remove and install a better lock like a Schlage, make more money and do the customer a huge favor.

You have to be kidding me. They aren't SLIGHTLY better NDE protection. There's a friggin' reason you have to force open the lock. And as far as finding info online about breaking into their house "nudge nudge wink wink" the proliferation of bump information, which this lock is 100% resistant to, is much easier to find than DE tactics to force the smartkey.

And being that smartkey ends up in residential situations to begin with there's something worth keeping in mind - glass has a DE flaw too.

I was looking at this from a locksmiths view point. You would not believe how many locksmiths are out there that once they see a Schlage lock on a door they immediately reach for the drill.

[Schuyler]

ahhhhhhh

sorry I'm a bit of a smartkey fanboi at the moment

[globallockytoo]

ahhhhhhh

sorry I'm a bit of a smartkey fanboi at the moment

In some ways, I have to agree with a previous poster above. Further thinking about it, I would imagine that some locksmiths would actually be happy to still charge the same price to the client but not have to pull the lock down to rekey.

Time taken will be a 10th of other brands and you can still claim the same compensation.

Perhaps I was too hasty in my previous judgement.