Extreme pick-resistant lock

[S3rratedSp00L]

Hehe, WhiteHat, I can see how that driver in stack #1 could look serrated! (Might even BE serrated.) I thought the key pin looked like a mushroom pin upside down, but it was the line for the top of the keyway. hehe oops.

[mcm757207]

Wow... this topic has gone WAY off my intended topic

[S3rratedSp00L]

Wow! You are very right!

So, how about adding ball bearings in your extremely pick resistant lock in between pins or something like I have heard has been done on some other locks!? (Was it Yale?) What do you think?

[mcm757207]

Ball barings have been added below bottom pins on some older locks simply because they did not bevel the bottom of the pins, and it's much smoother for the key to ride on the balls than on the 90 degree angled pins. The idea that I thought would really make it hard to pick would be the keyway... EXTREMELY tight zig-zag pattern.

[S3rratedSp00L]

well, I agree that your tightly corrugated keyway would make it hard to pick! The wackier the better!

Now that I give it more thought, ball bearings might actually make it easier to pick. What effect do you think you'd get if you used ball bearings as key pins? Do you think the bearings would rotate a little bit when picked at? Even if they did, a custom shape would probably fix that problem really quick, anyway... I am just curious... I may try it sometime on some old cylinder just to see what happens...

How about different spring strengths for different stacks!? It might not be a dramatic effect, but very simple and easy to impliment.

hehe, the keyway that you talk about might have another benefit! It may make the key more resistant to bending in your pocket because of the zig-zag corrugated shape! That would be an interesting looking key for the chain, too!

[alias]

How about different spring strengths for different stacks!?

It seems as if the new Lockwood V7 products[link to a pdf], amongst other things, has variable length top pins. I'm guessing so that the combined length of each pin stack is the same as every other pin stack so you'd get the same feedback from each. I guess that'd achieve much the same as varying your spring length with less problems of determining the spring force required.

Looks like Lockwood are going serious about security with V7 too. Patented keyways, side-bitting, drill resistance, the variable length driver pins etc - a bit of a step-up from anything else I've seen from Lockwood. The only thing they don't seem to be going for is serrated, spooled or mushroom pins. Anyone got any ideas why security pins are relatively less prevalent in residential locks here in Aus? Also, anyone played with/picked one of these V7 locks? What was the feel like?

Andrew

[alias]

The only thing they don't seem to be going for is serrated, spooled or mushroom pins.

Derrr...I should have read the paragraph under the spring one where they talk about the spools...

Oh well, as cliched as it sounds, 'I guess thats why you should sleep every once in a while...'

I'm off to bed...

[WhiteHat]

I've had a feel inside a V7 for about 5 minutes - one word to describe it would be "frustrating" you have to turn your pick to accurately manipulate the pins, and the keyway is very restrictive, so it takes a bit of time - never actually picked the thing of course.

[S3rratedSp00L]

Now those look like a challenge! Nice locks!

Sidebar, ouch, tight keyway, ouch! Key control, doesn't matter cuz it's hard to pick..

All that and drill resistant as well! Good stuff!

Now if only doors and windows were built better!

[alias]

Now if only doors and windows were built better!

You're not wrong. Some mates of mine were broken into the other day and the deadbolts and latches on the front and back door did nothing when they smashed a window, stuck the doormat on the shards and climbed in...

Funnily enough though, the deadbolts (ilco) and latches (lockwood) are easy as all hell to pick. They're all keyed alike and its a reeeeaaaaally easy bitting - pops open with practically no effort. I hadn't seen the key when I first picked one of the locks (backdoor ilco) and got the shock of my life when it popped open after about 5 seconds of raking! The ilcos seem to have huge tolerances though compared to the Lockwood even. Are ilco deadbolts the kwikset of Australia?

[S3rratedSp00L]

Are ilco deadbolts the kwikset of Australia?

Sure sounds like kwikset!

Windows probably aren't as cheap as the locks if they are comparable to kwikset!? Maybe some razor wire on the windows would help!

[Romstar]

Ilco are excellent locks.

The problem is, they have an entire line of locks ranging from the cheap to the extreme.

It's more likely than not that many places have the cheap ones. It sucks, but that's the way people think.

Romstar

[S3rratedSp00L]

Good point, Romstar!

Unfortunately, there is a big market for cheap junk locks. Locks should be inexpensive and reasonably well designed.. Even in a cheap lock, how hard is it to include security pins or something, really?

I suppose even kwikset is making some ok locks these days, but people still buy the cheapest ones instead..

If I were a locksmith, I would probably never be able to recommend a brand because just about everything can be bypassed or picked...

[Romstar]

Yes, most everything can be picked or bypassed.

Bear in mind, the objective of a lock is to slow you down. No lock can keep everyone out. This is why most theives don't pick locks.

Choose a good quality lockset that will be durable, and withstand picking to a fair degree.

Then, examine the door you are installing it on. If it is a hollow door, or the nearest stud in the door frame is more than 1 inch away advise the owner of the situation, and offer to upgrade the door and frame.

If they won't go for that, offer enhanced strike plates, and a door surround.

Locks are only ever as good as the doors they are installed on. Offer to do an overall assessment of the home and advise where and how a thief could get in quickly or without being seen.

Premesis security is about way more than locks.

Romstar

[Serethipas]

yeah,after reading the whole 3 pages,you forget the first post was

could you pick this?
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