How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

[Ralph_Goodman]

The fact is, the vast majority of thieves and burglars are too lazy to learn a new and difficult skill- if they had any ambition they would be white collar criminals.

Funny, but true.

It seems like if your locks are being picked, it would be corporate espionage, governmental entities such as the FBI or CIA, or maybe Dexter.

And in any of those cases, burglary is the least of your worries.

[Deja vu]

Long ago we had a case of a house getting broken in to with lock picks. It was a X-Husband "just trying to get his &%$# back". He did not want to break a window because it was "1/2 his". He was on a security video for about 30 min trying to lock pick the door and he adventually got it. The wife was out that night.

That is the only account I have ever heard of.

p.s. After she kicked him out she had the locks changed.

[billdeserthills]

I have seen several locks that were picked by criminals, of course for each lock I have seen there are likely
many I didn't see, simply because most locks never do show an indication of being picked. The few I did see
were Adams Rite style hookbolts and the only reason I did get to see was because the top pins fell into the
bottom of the cylinder, when it was turned and the thief was unable to fully rotate the cylinder--In a couple
of these cases, the cylinder didn't turn far enough to unlock the bolt, on a couple the bolt did unlock far enough
that the thief was able to get the door open and then rob the business.

I had one business years ago, it was a hair salon and someone kept on wrenching the cylinder(s) out of
the doors there. I began installing cylinder guards and then one day the bastard smashed all the windows out
I repeatedly informed the owner that they must not keep cash inside, or they needed a safe, but nobody
would listen. After the glass was all smashed out a few times, either the criminal was caught, or they moved
on to fresher pastures

[Shackle Jackal]

The worst thing you can do is underestimate an enemy. Criminals arn't just druggies (tho most are), but like you all they come from all facets of life. I am not trying to play devils advocate, F^&* anyone who gives locksport a bad name. But to assume that a criminal is too lazy to learn how to pick locks is dangerous IMHO.

[GWiens2001]

The worst thing you can do is underestimate an enemy. Criminals arn't just druggies (tho most are), but like you all they come from all facets of life. I am not trying to play devils advocate, F^&* anyone who gives locksport a bad name. But to assume that a criminal is too lazy to learn how to pick locks is dangerous IMHO.

Absolutely correct. There are actually some brilliant people in prisons. Certainly not a majority of inmates, but have been astounded at the creativity in some escapes. And there are criminals who are dedicated to learning better ways to steal from we honest, hard working people. And the better ones frequently take longer to get caught. In the long run, though, crime does not pay. The law has the numbers and the time. Sooner or later, the crooks make a mistake, and get caught.

Gordon

[AngryHatter]

In truth most crimes reported go unsolved.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -unsolved/

How sophisticated a burglar is when it comes to forcing entry is conjecture unless someone here is a criminal on a professional basis.


Now, spies could be another story altogether.

[LockNewbie21]

It all depends on the caliber and type of crime. There is also psychological factors at play here as well.

Your common garden variety criminal won't use lock picks. They usually become crooks/druggies/deviants because they are impulsive, anti-social and psychologically predisposed to acts that satisfy an immediate need (be it rational or not). Thus, they smash windows, kick in doors or try to lift a key off someone.

The types who will use lock picking/bypass and other covert techniques are high functioning individuals with patience, intelligence and cunning. Usually controlled, highly adaptive and methodical. These "types" who are smart enough to defeat high security systems (physical, electronic and biometrics) would immediately recognize that the opportunity cost to commit crime with these skills would be to high given the diminishing returns and odds experienced the higher level or more valuable the target is.



In short, anyone "good enough" wouldn't waste their skills, time or freedom on crime when letter agencies and private sector pay handsomely for their "unique" talents.

[Shackle Jackal]

I realize most crimes involving locks/locked doors or windows are forced entry, that lockpicking in crime is the exception not the rule. I just feel that to say "nope dosent happen" is a big potential security flaw. I am just trying to say it dosent happen often .Also that because of the suspcion in general about lock sport it is uncomfortable to admit these skill COULD be used for evil, and that if and when it does happen it casts an ugly shadow on one of my favorite things.

[gumptrick]

My biggest concern is crooks learning about things like raking, wigglers/jiggers, bumping, etc. Those require very little skill. A crook with a bogota or a common bump key (KW1, SC1, etc) could get into many locks on residences with very little effort. They are also fast techniques. Both factors are very attractive to criminals. It's a bit like the increasing tendency for criminals to snap euro profile cylinders--quick and no skill required.

[billdeserthills]

In truth most crimes reported go unsolved.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -unsolved/

How sophisticated a burglar is when it comes to forcing entry is conjecture unless someone here is a criminal on a professional basis.


Now, spies could be another story altogether.

I must say I find this comment slightly annoying but perhaps it's just me--
As a locksmith, or security professional I would be remiss if I didn't try to apply
my knowledge of past criminal's work and especially that of future crimes to the
work I provide my clients, even if it is only that they should remove the 'emergency open string'
from their garage door openers in order to frustrate those unknown criminals who may have not
yet considered accessing the house through the closed garage door.

Of course I can't stop a criminal who will do something as rash as break a window to gain entry,
as I don't sell window tape--I can still help the situation by making a recommendation to
the homeowner, instead of worrying that anything I say might turn out to be conjecture

Make a friend of imagination/forethought

[AngryHatter]

In truth most crimes reported go unsolved.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -unsolved/

How sophisticated a burglar is when it comes to forcing entry is conjecture unless someone here is a criminal on a professional basis.


Now, spies could be another story altogether.

I must say I find this comment slightly annoying but perhaps it's just me--
As a locksmith, or security professional I would be remiss if I didn't try to apply
my knowledge of past criminal's work and especially that of future crimes to the
work I provide my clients, even if it is only that they should remove the 'emergency open string'
from their garage door openers in order to frustrate those unknown criminals who may have not
yet considered accessing the house through the closed garage door.

Of course I can't stop a criminal who will do something as rash as break a window to gain entry,
as I don't sell window tape--I can still help the situation by making a recommendation to
the homeowner, instead of worrying that anything I say might turn out to be conjecture

Make a friend of imagination/forethought

Allow me to amend the comment.
There is a plethora of arm chair psychology going on here, and that is what I discounted.

I work in a school system, most of my work is pulling broken keys, maintaining old equipment and the replacements of which there are a lot as older hardware is worn out.
But when a kid is looking to steal an item or test answers they display many shades of sophistication. Some try to leave no sign and some do not care.

It's beyond me to determine why a person stole something.

[billdeserthills]

I read, Locks, safes, and security, latey. Somewhere in volume One, the author said in less than 1% of break ins involved sucessfull entry by lock picking. A heigher percentage, (I think it was around the 10% mark) was staged lock pick attempts to try and defraud insurance companys.
But by far the most break ins by the "average" burglar was brute force, on the weakest point in your house.

In my area of Scotland just now. The majority of break ins are oppertunists, taking advantage of an unlocked door, even when people are in the house.
Or stuff left in cars unlocked in the driveways.

The majority of culprits, do not come from the area the crimes are commited, unless they are stealing to feed a drug habit.

I think the average lock enthusiast on a forum is the least likley person to go out and commit a crime, and I think most people could spot a guy who shows up asking newbie questions about a particular lock, he used a stock photo from google to ask about.

That said I recently found this in a car park in Aberdeen, so some may be trying to pick locks (uninformed as they may be).

The thing is with most American locks, the owner rarely knows 100% that their lock ever was picked.
I only know myself because there was no doubting the evidence on the locks I found picked, that they
had most definitely been picked open cause there is no other way to find the plug(cylinder) turned without a key in it

However I do the occasional job for folks who will swear they locked the door when they left
some are feeble-minded, but they are not all that way-

[billdeserthills]

In truth most crimes reported go unsolved.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -unsolved/

How sophisticated a burglar is when it comes to forcing entry is conjecture unless someone here is a criminal on a professional basis.


Now, spies could be another story altogether.

I must say I find this comment slightly annoying but perhaps it's just me--
As a locksmith, or security professional I would be remiss if I didn't try to apply
my knowledge of past criminal's work and especially that of future crimes to the
work I provide my clients, even if it is only that they should remove the 'emergency open string'
from their garage door openers in order to frustrate those unknown criminals who may have not
yet considered accessing the house through the closed garage door.

Of course I can't stop a criminal who will do something as rash as break a window to gain entry,
as I don't sell window tape--I can still help the situation by making a recommendation to
the homeowner, instead of worrying that anything I say might turn out to be conjecture

Make a friend of imagination/forethought

Allow me to amend the comment.
There is a plethora of arm chair psychology going on here, and that is what I discounted.

I work in a school system, most of my work is pulling broken keys, maintaining old equipment and the replacements of which there are a lot as older hardware is worn out.
But when a kid is looking to steal an item or test answers they display many shades of sophistication. Some try to leave no sign and some do not care.

It's beyond me to determine why a person stole something.

I see what you mean now,
I prolly misunderstood what you meant

[Moses057]

If someone does spp a lock it does leave a trace.

[Ralph_Goodman]

If someone does spp a lock it does leave a trace.

I would love to know how often a crime scene is investigated in a way to looks for signs of lock picking.

A couple of times of this forum, former police officers have said that they never saw a break-in that was achieved with lock picks. I assume that means it was obvious some other method led to the illegal entry.

But with an entire field dedicated to this type of detection (forensic locksmithing), it must be a concern. I know penetration testers also examine the susceptibility of locks and security to covert and surreptitious entry methods.

It is obviously a concern for some people. Corporations especially.