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i cant do it

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

i cant do it

Postby rewerb » 12 Dec 2005 22:23

for the past couple of days ive bought 2 locks. a master lock no.3 and a no. 20. I CANT DO IT!!! ive been at it for hours.days. does any one have any tips on these two. or have u ever picked them.


thanx
rewerb :D
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Postby cha0s » 12 Dec 2005 22:28

ive got a master 3, it gets alot easier after you get it a few times. ill admit it took me a while at first. what types of picks do you have? Rakes and hooks i assume. if so, start with a few scrubs of the rake then move onto single pin. can you tell what pin binds the most? if not check this out its helpful. also read the MIT guide like it says if you havent.

digital_blue wrote:This keeps coming up, so I figured I'd write it up in a more comprehensive manner and post it once. I am wholly convinced that many a newbie lockpicker (and perhaps even some more experienced ones) will do well to go through this.

Beginner’s Lockpicking Exercise

by digital_blue © 2005 Lockpicking101.com


The following exercise is one that I feel every new lockpicker will benefit from. I first learned about this exercise in Locks, Safes, And Security by Marc W. Tobias. The point of the exercise is to help a beginner to properly learn how to feel what is happening inside a lock, and to detect a binding pin. Many new lockpickers tend to use what I’ve often referred to as the “poke and prod” method, in that they spend a lot of time poking around in the lock with their pick tools, and along the way they manage to set the pins and eventually, through mostly luck, the lock opens. As exciting as this is for the beginner, if their skills do not develop past this poke and prod method, they will have increasing difficulty as they move on to harder locks.

Because lockpicking relies on lifting “the binding pin” to the shear line, it stands to reason that figuring out which pin is the binding pin would be a useful skill. This exercise will help you develop this skill.

If you have not already, it is important that you study how and why lockpicking works. Read the MIT Guide To Lockpicking for more information.

It is very important that you go through this exercise in a slow and methodical manner. If you rush through it, you may as well just save your time and not bother at all, as you will learn very little from it. Take each step one at a time, and do not advance until you are absolutely certain that you have learned all you can from the stage you are at.

In order to try this exercise, you will need:

1) You’ll need a 5 pin cylinder. This can be any 5 pin cylinder that you can disassemble and remove pins. A simple Kwikset cylinder would be fine, though my experience has shown that a beginner may actually benefit even more from a more difficult cylinder such as a Schlage. As you’ll see, you work your way up slowly, so it doesn’t matter at all if the cylinder is currently too difficult for your current level of picking skill. It is important, however, that the cylinder not have any security pins. Picking security pins is the topic for another exercise. Walk before you run. If you need help learning how to disassemble a lock cylinder you can learn more HERE.

2) You’ll need a small hook pick (or feeler pick). Ideally, this would be a purchased pick, such as one made by SouthOrd. You could use a homemade pick if you like, but please stay away from makeshift items such as paper clips or safety pins for this exercise. They will only frustrate your learning process.

3) You’ll need a tension wrench


The Exercise

STAGE 1 – Approx time, 20 minutes

To start, disassemble your lock removing all pin stacks but the first one (the stack closest to the front of the lock), leaving chambers 2, 3, 4, and 5 empty of all springs and pins. Reassemble the lock with just this one pin stack installed and you are ready to begin. You’ll notice, of course, that by applying tension with the wrench and lifting this one pin, the lock will open. It is exceptionally easy to pick this lock in this configuration. But for this stage, what you need to learn is the difference in feel when a pin is binding and when it is not. With the plug in the locked position, use your pick to lift the pin while applying no tension at all. You will feel the pressure from the spring pushing back on the pin lightly. Do this several times so you can comfortably recognize this feeling later.

Next, apply light tension to the plug and use the hook again to lift the pin very slowly. Do not lift so high as to hit the shear line and open the lock. As you slowly lift the pin, notice how different the feel is. You will detect the resistance of the pin dragging across the sides of the chamber. This feeling is important, as it is precisely what you will be feeling for later when trying to find the “binding pin”. Get to know this feeling well. Try applying more tension and notice how the feeling will change as the resistance caused by your increased tension makes the binding more pronounced.

Don’t move on until you can clearly distinguish the difference between a pin that is binding and a pin that is not.


STAGE 2 – Approx time, 20 minutes

Next, take the lock apart again, and add one more pin stack, this time in position 2 (second back from the front), leaving the first pin stack as it was.

Now you a functioning lock that would, in theory, require a key. With only two pins it offers little security, but it still has all the basic properties of a fully useable lock. What is important to understand in this stage is that with two pins, only one of them will bind when tension is applied. The other will not bind. (Note: on some poorly manufactured locks, you may notice that both pins bind to some extent, though there will always be one that binds more than the other. We will refer to that pin as the “binding pin”).

With no tension applied, use your hook to lift one, then the other pin. Notice that they should feel about the same, with the spring pushing back down on the pins and no pins binding. Slight differences is force might be noticed as a result of different pin stack heights or different spring tensions.

Now try applying light tension to the plug. While doing so, gently and slowly lift lift the first pin, paying attention to whether it is binding or not. Do not lift it all the way to the shear line yet. Next, try the same thing with pin two. Notice which of the two feels like it’s binding. Whichever pin offers the most resistance will be the binding pin.

Lift this pin gently and slowly until you feel it come to a distinct stop at the shear line. This may be accompanied by a small click, or a very slight rotation of the plug. This will be an indication that you have set this pin. To verify that the pin is set, allow the bottom pin to drop back down (of course while maintaining tension). If the bottom pin falls back down into the keyway freely, your pin is likely set. Gently lift the bottom pin and notice that this again has a completely different feel to it. Since the top pin is now trapped above the shear line, there will be no spring tension on this pin, so it will move freely with almost no resistance at all.

Once you’ve set one pin, use your hook to gently lift the other pin. Notice now that the binding force that was on the pin you just set has now transferred to this pin. Lift this pin to the shear line and the lock should open.

If it happens that you lift this pin to the shear line and the lock does not open, it means that you have not set the first pin (first to bind, not necessarily first position). It could be that you have lifted the first pin close to the shear line but have not quite hit it yet. In this case, go back to your first binding pin and lift a little more.

Once you’ve opened the lock like this, lock the lock again and repeat several times. Pay careful attention to which pin is binding and which is not.

Do not move on to the next stage until you are very comfortable with determining which of the two pins is binding.


STAGE 3-5 – Approx 20-30 minutes each

Repeat the above process, adding one additional pin stack in order from front to back for each new stage. Along the way you may find it useful to mix up the bottom pins as you do this. This will change the nature of the lock a little and help prevent you from just performing the exercise in a memorized and robotic manner. The important thing is that you do not move on to the next stage until you are sure that you’ve learned all you can from the level you are on. This may seem tedious and even boring at times, but you are learning a valuable skill that carry over to every pin tumbler lock you pick.


Summary

I hope that you take the time to go through this exercise with diligence and patience. The more care and attention you put into it, the more you will benefit from it. I promise you that you will be a better lockpicker for having completed this exercise.

If you have completed this exercise and it has helped you, feel free to drop me a PM and let me know!

Cheers!

db


Good luck and thank db for that :)
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Postby rewerb » 12 Dec 2005 22:33

ive reed the mit guide and half understand what racking is. can u fully explain to me how to rake. but i dont have a snake.
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Postby cha0s » 12 Dec 2005 22:58

you dont have to have a snake to rake but it sure helps. raking is basically applying light tension with teh tension wrench and scrubbing the snake ( in your case a hook or 1/2 diamond) basically quickly push it in and pull it out while pushing slightly up so that you can set some of the pins. this will usually work in setting a pin maybe 2 or 3 on some harder locks but in all honesty i can rake open my master3 in about 5 seconds.

some advice is DO NOT get into the habit of raking to open locks. i fell into this and as soon as you graduate to some harder locks you will be kicking your self. the exercise db posted about the lock with 1 pin then 2 then 3 and so on will really help. get a kwickset and pull it appart and do this. again use the search button there are tons of tutorials here. dont try taking appart your padlock its more of a pain then its worth and you will be happier with the ease of pulling appart a kwikset or any other cheap 5pin lock.

also can you post a picture of your picks or whatever tools your using at the moment, it will help eveyrone in assisting you through these.

good luck

-drew
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Postby devnill » 12 Dec 2005 23:03

i would forget raking exists for awhile. If you learn how to go pin by pin, you willl get a better sense of feel for the pins,and wont get into bad habits. A lot of locks also are harder to rake than going pin by pin. DB's excersices are really good also.
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Postby digital_blue » 13 Dec 2005 2:39

Yes, I concur with the above. You've tried learning your way and haven't had luck, so if you really want to learn to pick locks, try the above exercise. You really can't go wrong with it if you're diligent and patient.

db
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Postby Omikron » 13 Dec 2005 2:44

I really do think the biggest hang-up people have when starting out in locksport is that they have absolutely no idea what to expect, so more often than not they are doing something completely wrong. Sometimes, there's only so much you can read, and the rest you have to learn from experience.

I would HIGHLY reccommend carefully and thoroughly following db's guide which was posted earlier in the thread. I don't quite consider myself an uber-novice, but re-visiting that excercise improved my feel considerably and I was more open to interpreting different types of feedback that my tools give me.

Try it, you'll like it. :-P
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Postby Chrispy » 13 Dec 2005 3:08

rewerb = brewer

Perhaps try picking whilst sober. :wink:
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Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
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Postby Omikron » 13 Dec 2005 3:17

::moves his index finger as if scratching the air::

...etimreht...etimreht...
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Postby ziptie007 » 13 Dec 2005 4:09

ya i have to admit to the raking method when i opened up my 1st master lock. I'm now trying to learn picking pin by pin so I can better my skills and not rely on raking.
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Postby Chrispy » 13 Dec 2005 4:38

Omikron wrote:::moves his index finger as if scratching the air::

...etimreht...etimreht...


:P

!cissalC

*Oh wait..... not this again..... :roll: *
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Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
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Postby rewerb » 13 Dec 2005 20:25

hey guys these r the crap pics im using right now until i can ordersome[img][/url]
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Postby cha0s » 13 Dec 2005 20:31

gotta make the pic link EX www.site.com/urkelpicture.jpg and put it inside of
Code: Select all
[img] [/img]
tags
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Postby rewerb » 13 Dec 2005 20:33

sry guys it wont let me post it :( just click on my messanger thing and i will send u a pic.

i can pic many locks its just that i am having alot of trouble with the 3, & 20. what do u guys recomend for some good pics. i want a good set(10-25 picks) do masters have mushroom pins? :?: somebody told me about sliding cilinders?



thanx

T. brewer= or rewerb[/img]
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Postby SpaceCow » 13 Dec 2005 23:45

Master lock No.3's do not have mushroom pins.
I snort graphite.
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