Just impressioned my first key!

[pinsetter]

OK, I'm proud of myself even though the task was fairly simple.

My dad bought two Sentry lock boxes (the firesafe type) at an auction. He got them both for a dollar because they had no keys with them. I had told him anything he could pick up for me as far as locks to get it whether it had keys or not. I get most of my practice material that way. One of the boxes had been broken open and was ruined, but the other was fine, just locked. I found and old yale key in a box of old keys I'd been collecting and hoarding away that fit the keyway and tried it in there. I had cleaned the key and roughed it with a file before trying it. While I had it in there I twisted it and began working it to see if the wafers would leave marks. Turns out that the key had meat in all the right places and I was able to file a key out of it that works the lock.

It was a simple wafer lock, but considering I started the impression with a key that had already been cut I figure I didn't do too bad for my first one.

Oh, and it turns out the box was empty......

[vector40]

Very impressed. I have a lot of respect for anyone who can learn this skill.

[strangedream]

alright high five!

[Pic-king]

i have a question... you impression a key by shaking the key like crazy in the lock, and it scrahes where you need to remove material...how comes it doesn't mark the key when the pin is on the shear line (if you know what i mean...)

i don't get it...the spring will still push down on the lever...

[horsefeathers]

pin tumblers don't have levers....

why not read the MIT guide and all of the other informative posts in this forum, then you will have a clearer understanding of the terminology and function of all the parts.

[vector40]

When a pinstack is at the shearline, it will not bind when you twist it, and therefore won't have any resistance to mark the key. Spring pressure isn't nearly enough.

[pinsetter]

I can understand his reasoning though, because I had a similar thought:

I would always think, "If I'm doing an impression and there is a pin at shear line and the plug moved when it hit the shearline, why would a bottom pin that was hitting firm against the lip on the plug not mark the key as if it was bound?"

The answer is there for the finding, but it takes some thought!

[Shrub]

The spring wouldnt be pushing on the pin either so the spring wouldnt mark anything even if it was strong enough.

The top pin and thus the spring in that scenareo would be actually on the plug past the hole for the bottom pin if that makes sence.

[pinsetter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the springs don't really have anything to do with impressioning.

If I'm doing impressioning right, you apply so much torque to the plug with the key blank that it binds the pins so tight they cannot move AT ALL. The pins are bound tight.

I'm actually thinking the answer is more complex and involves some mathematics and laws of physics applied.

I have a theory involving pin lengths, friction, the angles of the pins as they come into the plug, mainly being the fact that the longer bottom pins will always keep the plug in line sufficient enough for the shorter ones, which stop marking first, to re-enter the cylinder freely, therefore leaving no marks on the keyblank.

That is my theory and I had to think about that a while, but it also applys to "The pin that is binding the most" when picking.....

Does that make sense, or am I off track too?

[Shrub]

No the springs dont have anything to do with impressioning.

It is the action of a unsetting pin will mark the key when a force is applied, a setting pin will not.

[pinsetter]

Right!

That is why it is critical to stop filing exactly at the shear line. If you take too much material off, then the top pin starts binding and the pin starts marking again. Then you've wasted a key blank. At least the pins start marking better right before they hit the shear line, so you usually know when you're getting close.

I've made 2 more keys since my first one, both of them on Kwikset door knobs.

In 3 keys I've wasted 1 blank, and that was by taking off too much material. I'm sure I'll end up wasting a few as I do it more though.

I'm glad impressioning kinda came natural for me though. I was worried that I'd get hung up on it.

My next goal is to learn to do some re-pinning.

[skold]

OK, I'm proud of myself even though the task was fairly simple.

My dad bought two Sentry lock boxes (the firesafe type) at an auction. He got them both for a dollar because they had no keys with them. I had told him anything he could pick up for me as far as locks to get it whether it had keys or not. I get most of my practice material that way. One of the boxes had been broken open and was ruined, but the other was fine, just locked. I found and old yale key in a box of old keys I'd been collecting and hoarding away that fit the keyway and tried it in there. I had cleaned the key and roughed it with a file before trying it. While I had it in there I twisted it and began working it to see if the wafers would leave marks. Turns out that the key had meat in all the right places and I was able to file a key out of it that works the lock.

It was a simple wafer lock, but considering I started the impression with a key that had already been cut I figure I didn't do too bad for my first one.

Oh, and it turns out the box was empty......

My findings when impressioning wafers:

1. Impressioning a wafer lock:

I have found that wiggling the key while impressioning grinds down the wafers until they fit the paticular cut. If you had a few random keys - 35453, 55455, 44444, 55555, 43534 etc. you could actually shape the wafers to the key. (I call this reverse impressioning - as we are not changing the key we are changing the lock)

2. Impressiong pin tumbler lock:

Get an impressioning clamp (Dires, HPC - or you could make one on a lathe and milling machine)

If you know your spacing, use the pullout method (you will have to use a 6 pin key blank on some 5 pin locks - depending on how far you pull)

If you turn too hard you will bend the pins. (Unless you have a brass blank)

Also make sure you don't cut a huge depth next to a smaller one with out adding the 45 degree slope between them, as you may find the key will be reluctant to leave the cylinder.

It is also smart to do some visual decoding before impressioning a pin tumbler as the lock may have been rekeyed with LAB colour coded pins. (colour can take years to fade) For this you will need to know your pins, their colours and their heights. If you can successfully decode 2 or 3 of the pins it makes impressioning ALOT easier.