Softdrill with a Laptop? Scary equipment!!!

by **Truck** » 27 Dec 2003 2:20

While I am searching for a falle-picks sites, I only find MBA and only offer to locksmith. Anyway, I saw a picture that is pretty scary in term of lock picking a combination lock. Is it neccessary to open this simple safe with a soft drill and a laptop.

Compare with the movie THE ITALIAN JOB, remember the girl able to open the most complicated combination lock by the feel from her hand. And she use trail and error to narrow it down the correct combination.

Click on this link http://www.mbausa.com/SOFTCAP.htm
for more info

by **Me_The_Great** » 27 Dec 2003 15:47

LOL - looks impressive

What exactly does the drill do? I cant really see any reason why the actual software would be hard to program, knowing what the job involves is the only part where skill is required (in terms of knowing what to program) :wink:

by **Hawk2064** » 27 Dec 2003 15:48

Actually I believe she prefered to drill the safe, but since she had broken the glass she had no other choice but to do it by hand.

by **Truck** » 27 Dec 2003 19:11

Yes, the girl in THE ITALIAN JOB perfer to drill the safe but she broke the glass and need to do it by bare hand.

My point is, opening a combination lock is possible with our bare hand. All tools are absolete when opening the top of the line combination lock. Am I right?

by **Hawk2064** » 27 Dec 2003 20:41

How do you know it is possible? Don't forget movies are movies, and reality is reality.

by **Biff** » 27 Dec 2003 23:17

The soft drill system, similar to an autodialer, opens various safes by dialing and detecting the movement of the wheels inside. And in the Italian Job, the safe they opened took about a minute and find out all the numbers by feel, similar to how in other movies someone opens a lock with a single tool in 3 seconds. Opening top of the line safes, like high security locks requires special tools. Even the softdrill system has limitations and probably wouldnt work on the safe they opened in the italian job.

by **Varjeal** » 28 Dec 2003 10:10

Manipulating what would be the equivalent of a 1M lock in under 2 minutes??? That lock was obviously modified. As most locks in the movies. :roll:

by **marso** » 31 Dec 2003 23:37

Hi me again,

I found a link to information about softdrills.

SoftDrill succeeds in opening the lock in an average of less than 30 minutes

http://www.lockmasters.com/SafeOpenTools.PDF

I mean for one the site above says that you will be maniplulating in under 10 min. With differences in the give in differences in models, manufactures, wear and tear wouldnt it require this 10min setup time for each lock. Not to mention the time it takes you to boot the laptop and so forth. Not a 3 min job if this is infact the case

Of course there is manual manipulation and I would have nfi how long that would take. I mean for me to open a safe it takes me ages when i had to open a safe once and that is with knowing the numbers

by **Varjeal** » 1 Jan 2004 13:31

Note the term "average" and from what I can remember from the trade shows in the past, that 30min time doesn't include setup. ITL builds a model that doesn't require a laptop. It's an all-in-one unit. And they are pretty amazing for around $5000 or so dollars. :shock:

by **eric343** » 4 Jan 2004 3:16

Reality check... manipulating a safe lock by hand (assuming a UL Group 2) takes two to three hours. UL Group 1 or 1R locks take 20 hours or so, if you can get them open at all.

That assumes you've spent a year or so learning to open them reliably.

Now, there *are* some people (the kind that win lock manipulation contests at SAVTA [Safe And Vault Technicians Assoc.] conferences) who can do it in much much less than that. But they're the exception, not the rule.

For an excellent, excellent reference work on the topic, buy the Public version of Marc Weber Tobias' Locks, Safes, and Security ( http://www.security.org ), or ask him if he'd be willing to sell his updated version of "The Art of Manipulation" separately. He's added quite a lot to it to really describe the procedure in detail and update the original 1950s work (even that book was considered revolutionary when it was published).

Alternately buy the paper copy of Locks, Safes, and Security off Amazon.com. Mine included the Preview version of LSS+ (the electronic text), which has said manipulation book in it.

If you're not willing to spend that much money, borrow a copy of "Techniques of Safecracking" by Wayne B. Yeager, it has a nice overview of the procedure in it.

Or, check eBay, as there are always some cheap manuals availible there. Not sure how good they are though!

by **marso** » 4 Jan 2004 4:00

Hi eric343 thanks for a great post. I was hoping to put in prospective that it is not a magic and simple art, and i believe you sumed it up great.

Thanks again and I will try to get hold of some of that material.

by **unclepappy** » 19 Jan 2004 17:03

Guys

The chick in the Italian job is amusing. First off. Manipulation is tough. Most modern locks Can Not be manipulated conventionally. Secondly. She broke the glass. What did that do? It set off the relockers. Those relockers would then need to be pulled back in order to open that safe. She didn't do that. Plus the fact that she most likely couldn't hear the locking dog hit the gate. Those are some problems. Problems with story, problems with plot. But lets not mention that. If you want to manipulate a safe. Find a big old safe that you don't need a scope to hear. If you want to open a safe.. hehe well that's my secret :wink:

by **eric343** » 19 Jan 2004 22:08

unclepappy wrote:Guys

The chick in the Italian job is amusing. First off. Manipulation is tough. Most modern locks Can Not be manipulated conventionally. Secondly. She broke the glass. What did that do? It set off the relockers. Those relockers would then need to be pulled back in order to open that safe. She didn't do that. Plus the fact that she most likely couldn't hear the locking dog hit the gate. Those are some problems. Problems with story, problems with plot. But lets not mention that. If you want to manipulate a safe. Find a big old safe that you don't need a scope to hear. If you want to open a safe.. hehe well that's my secret

Errr...
Most modern locks *can* be manipulated "conventionally", if you're talking the procedure set down by Lentz et al in "The Art of Manipulation" (1950 or so). Even UL Group 1 (manipulation proof) locks *can* be manipulated, it just takes 20 hours or more.

Now, these are *mechanical* locks like found in _The Italian Job_. High security electronic locks like the Mas Hamliton X-09 cannot be manipulated or compromised covertly -- the only way I know of involves replacing the lock with a rather cleverly modified version (to avoid detection), and for that you gotta get the lock out of safe.

Regarding the glass relockers, watch the movie again man. The writer's one step ahead of you -- she cracked the glass relocker, but it didn't break.

Oh, and to open a safe-- everyone knows you just get a drill template from Lockmasters and bring your handy dandy drill rig to the job. *whirr* *click* ooooh. *getaway*

(why exactly would you need a scope to hear contact points, anyway? I find I can feel them fine, no matter how well sonically isolated the lock is)

by **Chucklz** » 20 Jan 2004 0:35

I havent seen the movie, but Is the Herculite plate painted or not? I know that at one point the paint could hold the glass together if cracked, but I would find it very Hollywood if she only *cracked* an unpainted pane.

A lil bit more about that X-09, It requires that you pause for 1/4 second on each number, to thwart robot dialers. It can also randomize the order in which it presents numbers (it does this by blocks, so you dont get 11 34 54 25 etc). And of course, ZERO dialing "slop". Truly a piece of hardware to be admired.

by **eric343** » 20 Jan 2004 1:14

They don't say, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, the X-09 is an amazing piece of hardware. The engineers have put an awful lot of work into making it secure even against lock replacement -- it's basically impossible to derive the combination of the lock even if you have it in front of you, and if you replace it with one that opens on *all* combinations, it'll be discovered when someone tries a random combination...

...of course, someone's figured out a rather clever solution to all this, but I'll let you guys figure it out.

Softdrill with a Laptop? Scary equipment!!!

Softdrill with a Laptop? Scary equipment!!!

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