Tubular lock impressioning?

[blake1803]

I've never tried this and I'm not finding much in search..

I suppose there isn't much information out there because it isn't very practical? (Would be easier to use a tubular pick, decode, then get a key cut by code..) But I enjoy impressioning and I think that I've found that 9 times out of 10 in this hobby, less practical = more fun

So far the only thing I've really turned up is the tubular lock impressioning handle and special file that Pro-Lok makes. Has anyone used these?

Alternately -- has anyone had luck impressioning a tubular lock with standard vise grips/handle? What kind of file do you use? What do the marks look like?

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but as I said I had trouble finding anything in search..

[Eyes_Only]

I don't think anyone here has ever manually impressioned a tubular lock, though I could be wrong. I know it's possible but most of us here arn't all that into Ace locks so if we need or want a key for the ones we have we just decode them through a pick tool like you mentioned to make a key or just go to a locksmith.

[Shrub]

Ace locks are a brand not a name refered to a tubular lock

As rgards impressioning, ive donme it once to see how easy it was and to be honest it wasnt easy but then again im no expert on impressioning,

I would hazard a guess that somthing like a plastic tube would be easier to use,

There are bits on iste but nothing so searchable or useful that i will bother finding them out and linking to them, maybe lets make this the thread that discusses anythign about tubular lock impressioning, lets leave out the bic pens and cardboard tubes although that is presicely what your asking about as in the theory of can they be done,

There are kits out there like you say but ive not used them,

The marks i was getting were brass pin marks,

I think the best thing would be to use a code cutter while doing it or else your gogin to be messing around with grinders or drils etc for ages,

[blake1803]

That would be great if this thread became the place to discuss tubular lock impressioning.

I think I'm going to ask Pro-Lok if they can just send me the instruction booklet for their impression tool -- it would probably be a good starting point for the technique, which I could then try to adapt to normal tools and files etc. In the worst case, their impressioning handle with the special file together come to around $50US... not cheap, but not terrible, either, especially when you consider the expense of a tubular pick.

I wonder if Oli's book touches on tubular locks at all... probably not, as it is very impractical, but I hope you'll let us know when you get to it, Shrub

I think the best thing would be to use a code cutter while doing it or else your gogin to be messing around with grinders or drils etc for ages,

Oh, I agree that a code cutter is the proper way to do it, but I've just been doing a lot of impressioning lately and it's good fun. A tubular lock could be a good challenge... I'm going to do a little more research and play around a bit, and post if I come up with anything.

[raimundo]

I tried it once on an ACEII, I was using a brass blank, and cutting with a fourth cut rattail file, (very fine tooth) at a fortyfive degree angle so the edge of the cuts was sloped, the file crossed the blank toward the centerline of the tube and upwards, I did not finish, as the method made very sharp points between the cuts and when I injured my thumb on one of these and drew blood, I quit. never went back to it.
Also, isnt the bic pen method considered impressioning, some people calle the ace pick with the sliders an impressioning tool as it can be read and a key cut by code.

[mercurial]

Might it be worthwhile trying to adapt the process of foil/comb impressioning used with dimple and normal pin tumbler locks, to work with tubular locks?

A key(or metal tube-stock) could be cut down just past maximum depths at the appropriate spacing (to make a 'circular comb'), and the diameter of the key/tube reduced so that it can take a few layers of foil tape wrapped around it, without becoming too big for the keyway.

The key would then be used along the same lines as a blank prepped for foil-impressioning a conventional pin-tumbler.

Along similar lines, a key cut down in a similar manner, with the cuts then filled with a softer metal(such as lead) might make things easier. Preparing blanks & filling each cut with lead might be a real pain though.

I don't have the resources to test either of the above ideas, but they might be worth trying.

...Mark

[Trip Doctor]

Yea I've always wanted to try the foil method with tubular locks Mercurial. Always been too lazy to get a key cut to max depths though, lol. Seems like it would work pretty nicely with tubular locks though.

[blake1803]

Just as an update:

After poor results with my various files I buckled down and bought the Pro-Lok file meant for use with impressioning tubular locks. Unfortunately it seems to be designed in such a way that you really do need to use their handle as well in order to make good use of it (either that or I'm just not very good at using the file yet). Out of many tries, I've only been able to hand-duplicate one key so far, and that was with a cheap lock that had the shallowest of depths.

So, I've got the handle on the way now, and will post again when I've made some progress.

From trial and error so far, the main thing I've noticed is that reading the initial marks on the blank is surprisingly easy, but after a few files down, the difference between what may be a reflection of light in my cut, and what may be a real mark becomes almost indistinguishable. Much, much more difficult for me than with pin tumblers.


mercurial:

A foil method is a good idea! I'd like to try and do this "manually" first, but I think I may give that a try next.

[Shrub]

Can you drop us a picture of the file used for impressioning tubular keys?

Do you file a flat or is it so special in that it produces the half round cut outs?

[blake1803]

There is an image of it on their website that is probably better than I'd be able to photograph myself:

http://www.pro-lok.com/images/PRODUCT/large/LT705F.jpg

It's basically a square shape that tapers into a pointed end, with a round "handle" part at the top. Two sides of the square shape have filing surfaces, while the other two are smooth. However the smooth sides do appear to have VERY fine filing spots on the corners, which leads me to wonder if a sort of twisting motion is supposed to be applied while filing to get those rounded cuts.

Hopefully the handle will make things more clear as to what to do. I suspect it wont make it easy, but if it makes it clear I'd still be more than happy

For all I know this whole thing is junk (or I just need more practice), but that all remains to be seen...

[Shrub]

Do you file a flat or is it so special in that it produces the half round cut outs?

That looks like a square needle file to me, if you cant get better pics than that then dont worry but that pic is next to useless to be honest, the thi ng i wanted to know more was the above question really,

[blake1803]

Do you file a flat or is it so special in that it produces the half round cut outs?

That looks like a square needle file to me, if you cant get better pics than that then dont worry but that pic is next to useless to be honest, the thi ng i wanted to know more was the above question really,

Are most square needle files smooth on 2 of the 4 sides, though? That smoothness is the only reason I think there may be some trick to this file, but I'm not sure. It certainly doesn't make the half-round cuts just by standard filing methods. And it may turn out that it's just a normal file that is simply designed to be the right size for the impressioning handle that they make. I won't know that till I get it.

I'll try to take a more useful/up-close picture this weekend (I'll probably have time to work on this over the weekend, too, so maybe I'll post some pictures of in-progress keys too)

[Biaxial Ranger]

Your right about it being somewhat of a needless skill when decoders are so easy to obtain or make.

But, using a standard brass blank, a good pippen file and a magik marker is all you need to have for this impression. And yes, if you don't have a way to cut to proper depths it'll be hard. A hand held cutter like a Herdy Gerdy is a good choice. (course it includes the decoder too)

One thing that I have found in some cases to remove to guide nipple, to allow imperfect centering of the key will help with the marks, as this disrupts the pin stack and allows more movement in the barrel.

Good luck to ya'll

[blake1803]

Just quickly posting to say that I actually managed to impression a tubular lock for the first time today! I'm excited enough that I am using the bold function of this message board for the first time today, too

I'll follow up with details and some pictures either tomorrow or some other evening this week.

Shrub I'll be able to describe the file in better detail, too. It's basically just a flat square file, but two of the sides are perfectly smooth to make sure that those sides dont accidentally file down impressioning handle

[raimundo]

after blakes last post, that handle seems even more mysterious. I was thinking that they were just sending him a wooden handle of the common type, This thread is making me want to go back to that aceII and start again.