pick proof?

[kiamo]

Why dont they just make locks with the shaft in the plug for the pins upside down cone shaped. like this:

Code: Select all


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                                      ____| |______
                                     ____     ______
                                         \   /
                                          | |


so that there is no ledge for the upper pins to get caught on when someone is picking the lock. It shouldnt matter if the key is in the lock because all the lower pins would be held up to the shear line.

Im sure there must be a reason, its such an obvious idea...

Fixed ACSII art (I think) Zeke79

[kiamo]

bleh it didnt like my ascii art...
lets try again


************| || |*************
____________| || |_____________
___________ || ____________
***********\ /************
************| || |*************
____________| || |_____________
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------


----- = key
__
**\ = Pin housing
__|

|| = Pins

[kiamo]

ok i give up with the drawing. Not aloud to put spaces in where i need them.

You guys get what i mean tho?

[UWSDWF]

I don't get it

[poppasmurfenfold]

Draw and label it in ms paint. Then post it on here.

[kiamo]

here, if you make the black bit the width of the shaft for that lower pin. narrowing down to the width of the pin (its a bad illustration and hugely exagerated) then the bottom pin would still push up the top pin and the top pin wouldnt have a ledge to lean on when being picked.

I suppose theres a danger that the lower pin would get stuck on the narrower shaft above it even with a key....

So then, how about fatter lower pins? this would still get rid of the ledge for the upper pin to get stuck on when being picked.

Obviously this wouldnt make a difference unless all the lower pins where different sizes in width.

maybe not pick proof but much more pick resistant than the lock i took to bits and repinned and repicked tonight...

maybe there allready are locks like this, im still a noob after all

[kiamo]

uhh... lockpicking101 site started giving me loads of time out messages. Sorry about the reposts... didnt think it was posting lol

[poppasmurfenfold]

That happens to me all the time. One of the mods usually take care of it when they get a minute. They have magical powers which give them that right.

[JackNco]

just sounds like you are describing a sloppy lock (bad tolerances). can make it tricky but in now way pick proof.

John

[poppasmurfenfold]

And, I dont think that would be any harder to pick than any other lock. I'm definitely not saying its a bad idea but if it works like any other pin and tumbler lock it can be picked the difficulty is usually determined by the pin arrangement and types of pins, I'm think. Your on the right track thinking outside the box like that though.

[Trip Doctor]

Assuming I understand this correctly (you want to increase the diameter of the 'holes' that the key pins are in), the plug would just spin a little more before binding the pins, that's all. Plus, that design would probably be asking for some troubles.

[Squelchtone]

Assuming I understand this correctly (you want to increase the diameter of the 'holes' that the key pins are in), the plug would just spin a little more before binding the pins, that's all. Plus, that design would probably be asking for some troubles.

he wants to put a chamfer (45 degree beveled edge) on the hole where they driver pin and spring is. the rest of the shaft would remain the same diameter as it usually is, just the opening would be milled wider and at an angle. This way there is not lip for the pin to press against while you apply tension. The driver pin would keep falling down with nothing to rub against.

I'm trying to think if this would work to prevent picking. I'm pretty sure it would make spool pins unusable in that sort of design, since there is no 90 degree corner to bind the shaft of the spool against.

hmmm

Squelchtone

[Eyes_Only]

Wouldn't the pin stack in the chamfered chamber just "bind" last?

[Afisch]

I think I may have seen this idea in another thread, is this idea which you are thinking of?
(cutaway from toool.nl). I can see that the pins may not align properly when the key is inserted and may catch on the underside of the sheer line. Also I think that the keyway will simply turn 5degrees, (to the edge of the bevel and then the edge of the cut will act as the ledge which it will then bind on (the left hand red section in picture), in effect simply making tolerences far worse. In practice neither may happen but something to think about.

[raimundo]

squelchtones right, its about making the step on the lip of the plug holes slippery, but in the photo, the OP shows what appear to be bottom pins with beveled edges at the shear,
I think if he pins a lock this way and trys picking it with greater tension he may find that it actually is pickable.
but I leave it to him to do the experiment.
Yale had some bottome pins that were pointed on both ends, they were not hard to pick.