Deep Curve Hooks (a la Falle)

[WhiteHat]

Hey all,

Anyone who has used the deep curve hooks similar to the ones here: http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/picks/falle-deep-curve.html, also found at the end of pyro's video etc?

would you be able to comment on how usefull they are - i.e. in locks where they can be used, are they superior/far superior to standard hooks? does pivoting on the bottom of the keyway reduce the feel at all? does it force you to rely only on feedback from the wrench instead of from the pick also.

thoughts?

WhiteHat

[Romstar]

Deep curve lifters are useful in straight style keyways. The older style ILCO locks come immediately to mind, as well as several Dominion style locks.

I consider them to be of limited use in Yale style keyways, and any of the newer corrugated, or paracentric style keyways.

When you can use them however, there is quite an amount of feedback through the pick once you get used to it. Since the pick lies on the bottom of the keyway, you have to learn to read it differently than your standard tools.

Also, if you aren't paying attention to the movement of the tension wrench, then you should practice more with that. Keep in mind that many European pickers tend to use a tension bar that is quite different from the standard American style. Many of the foreign tools that I have seen, and used, work with a tight fitting tension tool that fits closely to the keyway. In essence becoming part of the lock cylinder.

There are benefits and drawbacks to this technique. The first benefit is that it allows you more feel from the tension bar. This enhances your ability to know when you are dealing with security pins, and other devices. Secondly, there is less risk of the tension bar coming out of the keyway.
However, this technique means you normally carry more tension tools, and secondly because it tends to leave marks on the keyway it is not advised as a surreptitious method of bypass. This second problem only applies to you if you are a police office, investigator, or other type of duly appointed agent.

In my opinion Falle is on an entirely different train from the standard American style of picking. Because of the difference in development, and practice between these two schools of picking, I would say that they are useful, but in a much more limited fashion than you might immediately perceive.

Because of the prevalance of smaller, and tighter keyways, you would be better advised in my opinion to obtain, and practice with, a slim line style pick set.

Thats my opinion,
Romstar

[WhiteHat]

Thank you - that was a great post!

WhiteHat

[Romstar]

Gee, thanks.

Ya know, it's kida cool what you did with that binary. Anyone else ever figure out what it was?

526F6D737461722053797374656D7300

[PYRO1234321]

Romstar, yet another consise excellet post. I have to agree fully, at first deep curve picks look very useful, until you realize that they have a wide vertical profile that can limit their use it tight keyways. In order to make broad use of these, you really need a full range of various curves (probably why there are so many variations in a Falle set). I keep a few around but rarely use them and favour a wide selection of hooks for general pin tumbler use.

One thing i have noticed is that they are able to exert much more pin pressure without deforming due to their arc shape. The use of this effect may depend on indivindual picking preference or lock/pin types.

The best combination of curve strength and straight shaft access can be found in various hooks and deforest style picks IMO (like the newest slim line as previously mentioned).

[mr lockpickman]

props to romstar

(i don't know that much about unconventiomal tools...i knew what they were for, just not the history)

thanks

[Exodus5000]

Whitehats' binary - <whitehat>
Romstars Hex - Romstar Systems

Heres something slightly more obscure:

0011010000110101001101110011100000
1101100110011000110110001101000011
0111001101010011011100110011001100
1100110101001100110011000000110011
0011000000110011001100000011001000
1100000011010000110011001101100110
0110001101110011001000110111001100
000011001001100101

[PYRO1234321]

loads of fun 'Exodus5000 Corp.'

but i cheated...

http://www.nickciske.com/tools/binary.php

[Romstar]

ASCII, to HEX, to Binary. Very interesting. Took a bit longer.

Romstar

[NDE Bypass]

Romstar,

Yes, that was an excellent and very well thought out and reasoned post.

[WhiteHat]

one day I decided to teach myself how to read binary without the use of a computer - just remember that capital 'A' is 65 and lower case 'a' is 97 and you can work out the whole alphabet from there. "B" = 66, "b" = 98 etc.

after a bit of practice you can recognise the patterns fairly quickly

[mcm757207]

I understand the theory of binary- but never quite figure it out... lol

[monkeE]

On the risk of making this a lockpicking *and* computer theory page, here is a link to binary basics:

http://www.math.grin.edu/~rebelsky/Courses/152/97F/Readings/student-binary.html

01001110 01101111 01110111 00101100
00100000 01101100 01100101 01110100
00100111 01110011 00100000 01100111
01100101 01110100 01000000 11000100
11000010 11000110 11010110 01000000
11101000 11011110 01000000 11100000
11010010 11000110 11010110 11010010
11011100 11001110 01000000 01110100
0101001

[Mad Mick]

Hex is less typing......