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Determining the combination of open combo locks

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Determining the combination of open combo locks

Postby TOWCH » 21 Aug 2004 6:52

I know that alot of members already know how to do this but up until a few hours ago I didn't. I figure there are others in the same boat and after nothing came up in a search I figured an instructional topic would be useful.

Anyway, I recently found an open combination lock in my garage. Remembering some posts about finding the combination on combo locks by looking down the hasp hole with good lighting I decided to give it a try. After an hour or two searching for directions I eventually decided to just reinvent the wheel. I started looking for pictures of the inside of master locks and found a post by Frollard that lead me to this page: http://frollard.serveftp.com:81/MasterLock/combo.html. I eventually decided to follow suit and gut my lock. After about 10 minutes of fooling around with my slightly disabled lock I finally figured out the diffence between the notch being visibile from the hasp hole, to being in the correct position. The magic number on my 40 digit lock turned out to be 13. The same holds true for another 40 digit I have so I'm going to assume this is universal. Knowing this, finding the combination can be done by doing the following:
1. With the lock open, looking down the hasp hole at the proper angle to see the two disks.(I hold the lock with my right hand on the dial with the lock dangling from my left index finger by the shackle with the hasp hole facing me.)
2. I then rotate the dial CW until I see the notch on the disk that is closer to my left hand come in to view. Now I look at the dial, I continue for another 13 numbers and stop. The number it is on now is the first number.
3. Looking back down the hasp hole I start slowly turning the dial back CCW until the notch on the other disk comes in to view. I look at the dial and note the number it is on, this is the second number +13.
4. Reset the lock by rotating the dial CW 3 times.
5. The third number can be found by either A. Entering the first 2 numbers and then rotating the lock CW with constant pressure on the shackle. B. Entering the first 2 numbers and trying to open the lock on every number or every other number for, at most a full rotation. or C. Looking back down the hasp hole at a bit of an angle to see the third disk to the right of the second disk and finding the notch and number the same way as the first number. C is the most likely to succeed in my opinion so I would go with that.

I have tried this method on a whopping 2 locks and while it worked for me the test group was fairly small. If you're having problems understanding my directions I can try to answer any questions. If it just doesn't work for you let me know.
TOWCH
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 0:19
Location: Oregon

Postby hzatorsk » 21 Aug 2004 10:29

Here is the longer version of the FAQ I wrote some time back...

...perhaps a moderator can move this to the FAQs section and make it a 'sticky'.

Also... it presumes an offset of 11, not 13... but well within the tolerance of the lock so either make work equally well.

Somebody proofing it for errors... wouldn't hurt my feelings.

Cheers

hzatorsk


=========


Determining the Combination of an Open Master Combination Padlock

Method: Observation of wheels and gates via the hasp hole.

This FAQ was written by Harold Zatorski (hzatorsk) and is donated freely to www.lockpicking101.com.

You are reading this because you have a Master Brand Combination padlock and you want the combination to it. AND!!! The padlock has already been opened by other means. We are not discussing those means here and if you have a closed/locked padlock…you may stop reading now… this will not help you.

ITEMS NEEDED:

Bright Light: Find yourself a good strong source of light… something you don’t need to hold and that can shine down over your shoulder. I myself, use sunshine.

INTRODUCTION:

I will assume you already know the basics about how a combination lock works. In short: You spin a dial and inside the lock a wheel turns, upon that wheel is a pin that will eventually make contact with a second wheel and turn it. It too… has a pin that will turn another wheel. It takes almost a complete revolution of the dial to hit the second wheel and another full rotation to hit the last wheel. Each wheel has a notch (a gate) that must be aligned in the correct position to allow the lock to open.

We refer to these wheels numerically by the position in the combination they represent. Not the order they begin turning. So, the wheel that turns with the dial… is the last number of the combination. We call that the THIRD WHEEL, even though it is the first to turn. Get it? If not, it will be clear in a few moments.

Look into the hasp hole. Identify the relocking latch. This is big silver wedge that lodges itself into the notch cut into the hasp. Effectively locking it. It will cover most of the hasp hole preventing you from clearly seeing inside the lock. This is bad… but, since it is spring loaded… I’ve never successfully managed to hold it back with any kind of tool. If you hold it back too hard… it will interfere with dialing.

Ready? Great! Let’s get started.

THIRD WHEEL:

This is the easy one. Look past the hasp relocking latch and spin the dial slowly, you should eventually see in the down in the center of the hole a bright spot that represents the trailing edge of a gate (notch) in the wheel.

This dial usually contains false gates that appear as bumps along the wheel. So, we are looking for the one darker deeper gate.

When you see the bright spot, stop and look at the dial, turning the dial 360 degrees to the same number (in either direction) should reveal this same gate in the wheel. Verify this several times until you are sure the gate you see is indeed the right one.

Moving the dial ever so slightly in either direction should cause the gate to move as well, this is how you know you have the third wheel as it is attached directly to the dial.

Write down the number on the dial that represents where you can clearly see the bright spot of the gate.

This is the THIRD WHEEL: ________ (last number of combo)

SECOND WHEEL:

This one is a little harder to see… it is about a ¼ inch further back than the third wheel and appears under the hasp hole at the very back edge of the hole. It will only move after you’ve made one revolution in one direction or the other on the dial.

Now, dialing direction is important… you want to find the gate on this wheel, but… you want to know the number on the dial while the dial is turning left (counterclockwise).

So… after at least a full counterclockwise turn, start looking carefully for the second wheel gate to appear. It too will be a bright spot, but because it is not directly under the hasp hole, it will be slightly harder to see.

Write down this number as the SECOND WHEEL: ______ (second number of combo)

Verify you found it and confirm it is the second wheel by turning the dial to the right. It should move, immediately until you make almost a full rotation to the right.

If it moves immediately, you are looking at the third wheel. If it doesn’t move until almost two turns… you are looking at the first wheel.

Verify the gate on the second wheel by turning the dial at least a full rotation to the left and stopping on the number you wrote down. Do you see the gate? Good… lets move on.

FIRST WHEEL:

Okay… this is the exact same idea.

You are looking down in the hasp hole and about ¼ inch behind the second wheel towards the back of the lock is the first wheel. You are looking in at an angle towards the back of the lock and the light must be strong to see it.

Now… using TWO full turns to the RIGHT… begin looking for that gate.

Verify you found it by turning the dial LEFT (counterclockwise) two turns before it moves.

Write down the FIRST WHEEL # _________ (first number of combo)


VERIFY YOUR WORK:

Do NOT lock the lock yet.

· Spin the dial two full turns to the right and stop at your FIRST WHEEL #.
· Watch the back wheel to verify the gate came into position.
· Turn the dial one full turn to the left and stop at your SECOND WHEEL #.
· Watch the middle wheel to verify that gate came into position.
· Turn the dial to the right and stop at your THIRD WHEEL #.
· You should have all three gates lined up.

If not… rework the steps above until you get a comfortable that you can align all three gates.

If so… let’s get brave and try it. So… go ahead and lock it.

BUT WAIT!!! There is one more thing to do!

TRANSPOSING

We have worked the combination to align all the gates… but… peering down the hasp hole aligns them in the wrong position. What do we do about that… Easy, we transpose the dialed numbers around the lock to get them in the right place.

Turns out… the dialing distance between the spot where you can clearly see the gates in the wheels.. and the spot under the fence necessary to open the lock is eleven dialing positions clockwise. So… to transpose the numbers, subtract 11 (eleven) from each number. If your number is less than 0, then add 40 (fourty) to it.

So… if you wrote down: (6–22–18 ) Try: (35–11–7 )

If your not following this clearly… 6 - 11 = -5 (since -5 is not on the dial… we add 40 to make a positive number between 0 and 39… in this case 35 )

Did it open? Yes!! Great…

No… okay… let’s see if we can get it open.

Take your combination and dial it carefully in various combinations of one number less or one number more. So… If we are starting with (35-11-7), try these:

34-10-7, 34-12-7, 34-11-6, 36-12-8, …, Etc…

We are looking to adjust the combo for the variance of how we may have aligned the gates while looking into the hasp hole. Generally, you may be one or two numbers off.

Did that get it. Great!!!
hzatorsk
 
Posts: 696
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 11:15

Postby Guitar_J » 22 Aug 2004 1:18

OK kids, I was feeling productive this morning and threw this video together about combination locks, how they work, the various parts, and how to read the combination through the shackle.

Don't make too much fun of my southern accent.. I know I sound like a hillbilly so just shut up. :-)

Here's the link, Oh BTW I compressed it the best I could into a .asf Windows Media File, if anyone knows of a better format (I tried divx and Cinepak codecs for AVI.. both yielded over 80mb) let me know, a 7 min video shouldn't be 40 mb! sorry for all you dial upers... get broadband!

http://www.thelockpicker.com/lp101/combolock.zip

I zipped it so it can't be streamed from my webserver, I don't get a huge ammount of transfer so I don't need to be streaming videos.

Enjoy...

Feel free to PM me with any mistakes I may have made.. I don't want to spread ignorance.
I wish the world was flat like the old days, and I could travel just by folding the map.
Guitar_J
 
Posts: 309
Joined: 17 May 2004 21:11
Location: Virginia

Postby Guitar_J » 22 Aug 2004 1:19

Oh YEa I forgot, It is uploading now as I am posting this.. I'm going to bed, so if it should happen to not work... try later..
I wish the world was flat like the old days, and I could travel just by folding the map.
Guitar_J
 
Posts: 309
Joined: 17 May 2004 21:11
Location: Virginia

Postby snowcat » 22 Aug 2004 5:01

Nice

it defenatly filled some gaps in my understanding of this kind of combi lock.
Even if you know how it works its a very informative vid well worth the 39 MB :)
Hobby they say, try addiction ;)
--- One more, ... click, yust one more ---
snowcat
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 8:06
Location: Belgium

Postby TOWCH » 22 Aug 2004 6:13

The video sounds excellent, I can't wait for it to finish downloading. With hzatorsk's tutorial and Guitar_J's video I figure this thread is already a great resource on the topic. Thank you both.
TOWCH
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 0:19
Location: Oregon

Postby hzatorsk » 22 Aug 2004 11:03

Thanks Guitar_J,

The cutaway and tutorial helps bring everything into focus. Good Job!

Everyone else,

At least one minor technical error. Second wheel has a paragraph that SHOULD read:

Verify you found it and confirm it is the second wheel by turning the dial to the right. It should not move immediately until you make almost a full rotation to the right.


Apologies for all those sitting around with locked padlocks cussing me because the directions were wrong: :D
hzatorsk
 
Posts: 696
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 11:15

Postby Exodus5000 » 23 Aug 2004 1:27

Hey, I didn't get to say earlier, but good video. I've never even heard of this method previously.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
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Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA


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