Newbie Starting with a spool Lock?!

[xxmarcusrxx]

Hey Everyone, I'm new to the site and very excited about getting into the lock picking scene. So I got my first lock yesterday, it's a schlage 5 pin lock. I couldn't open it using the "poke and prode method" os I opened it up and lone and behold it has 4 spool pins. So I used the newbie method and started with 1 pin and worked my way up to 4. But now I can't open it. I know theres a lot of advise on how to pick spool pins but I have some different kind of questions. I have the solid bolt in the 4 position and spool pins in the 1,2,&3 positions. I'm using light tension on the lock and hear a lot of clicking when I'm feeling and trying to set the pins but it's not opening.

Question 1: Just to clarify, does the first binding pin change everytime you try to pick it? Or is there a specific pin the catches first every time.

Question 2: Does the order of witch pin binds next change? or does it stay the same. For example: Last time I opened it I had to pick the pins in this order: 4,1,3,2 (Does this order change?)

Question 3: Does the clicking sound and slight movement of the lock mean that a stack was set? Or does it mean that the spool pins and stuck?

Thanks for any advise you can give me!
Sorry if it's not the right place to post this!

[Satan130]

For questions 1 and 2: the order to pick the pins shouldn't change. (unless you mutilate the cylinder)

As for question 3, technically, if you set a pin it will move the cylinder, but this is usually so minute it is almost impossible to perceive. However if your security pin gets stuck then it is very noticeable. So I guess the straightforward answer is, no, the cylinder shouldn't move when you set a pin. However, this doesn't mean you won't notice that the pin is set, just that the cylinder hasn't moved.

And just because I'm a visual guy, this is how easy it is to notice if a security pin is stuck, whereas if you set a pin it is less then a millimeter.


Hope that helps

[datagram]

1. No, this should be similar when you start once you've correctly identified. however, see #2.

2. Sort of. During the course of a few pickings? Definitely not. Over prolonged use with the key/picks this may change depending on your picking method and the specifics of the lock. Eventually what happens is that components start to wear down minutely and these small differences can change the binding order.

3. This can mean a few things:

a) you had correctly set the stack
b) the top pin was bound but not properly set
c) a security pin caused a false set

dg

[raimundo]

Binding order orthodoxy theory says only one pin is so misshapen as to have to take all the pressure when under tension,

Others wonder if tension might be distributed to two pins, while three others get no tension, this would have a theoretical binding order of either the first binding pin or the second.

This is all theoretical, and in practice, the theory barely stands up. Yes, once you have determined that a certain pin is first to bind, that is subject to change as picking progresses. Affected by lubrication, grit, roughening of the pins, the chambers they ride in, etc.

Forget theory, practice, just practice.

[Joegekko]

I tried the same lock, a schlage 5 pin lock, I can't quite get it yet either.
Keep getting stuck..
Practice makes perfect I guess.

[5thcorps]

Stick to the old rule of advancing from one pin up to a full plug. This is a great way to feel as you add each additional pin how the binding pin changes. Most of the Schlages I've done the binding pin was usually towards the back. Possibly just a characteristic of the machining processes.

[jay----]

If you switch from clockwise to counter clockwise then the order of pins to be set will reverse,

...and if you have a spool pin falsly set, the plug will wanna turn back against the tw as you push up on the (false set spool) pin, let it push you back a little and THEN you will feel the pin set.

After a while, and with practice, spools become kinda nice because there easly identifiable, and easy to set once you learn how.

keep picking, and don't give up, spools and serrated and such are all part of the fun!!

[Baloopaloop]

Yes, what you have possibly been doing also is over picking. Don't worry about letting off all tension and letting the overpicked pins either set or drop down to be properly set. Practice is the key for security pins, the more practice you have the easier it gets

[laf]

you should buy a rekey lock with many types of pins, very nice

[quiksilver]

Is it also possible that the movement backwards when testing for a spool pin might cause the other pins to drop?

[Solomon]

Is it also possible that the movement backwards when testing for a spool pin might cause the other pins to drop?

When manipulating a spool/mushroom pin out of a false set this can happen, yes. If you're careful it won't happen though.

[quiksilver]

Is it also possible that the movement backwards when testing for a spool pin might cause the other pins to drop?

When manipulating a spool/mushroom pin out of a false set this can happen, yes. If you're careful it won't happen though.

Can you be more specific?

[darklighterz7611]

Is it also possible that the movement backwards when testing for a spool pin might cause the other pins to drop?

When manipulating a spool/mushroom pin out of a false set this can happen, yes. If you're careful it won't happen though.

Can you be more specific?

He means if you apply too little tension.

You should get a feel for the minimum tension needed to set a pin in each particular lock, then not release the tension past this benchmark when testing.

Although if your trying to set security pins the reason the pins are falling is most probably because your setting a pin thats last or late in the binding order before the earlier ones.

Remember a false set causes the plug to rotate, if you keep setting further pins after this then come back to the false set one when the wider end of the security pin pushes the plug back to set, the plug could rotate back too much to keep the other pins at the shear line.

To remedy this keep a memory of what pin position causes other pins to drop (A) and what pins drop (B), then make sure you set A to the shear line before B.

[le.nutzman]

Not that I'd consider myself the site's leading expert on spool and spoorated pins, but the face that I've cracked more American 5200s which contains upwards of 4 to full plug of spools than most, I'd say take the following for what it's worth.

Spool/Security pins are funky and yes the false sets will throw you off. If you're dealing with a spool, you'll notice a signifcant amount of counter rotation on the plug and then a sudden forward rotation as if the gates were just broke open. This is just an example, however it can be that extreme if the spool is set quite slowly.

Use the search function folks, it's a lost art. Using in searching for Spools, I found massive amounts of the same question being answered again and again and again.

Now, if you want as another option, use the search function and search for all posts by me and you'll find that i've written some very in-depth posts about tension and security pins.

The biggest thing you must know about security pins is that you have to set them first before you can set any pins that aren't security pins. Other than that it's nothing more than trial and error. My first guess based on reading your post is that you're heavy handing the tension wrench which quite often is a newbie mistake. Don't take it personally as everyone here has done it at one point or another. But i would seriously use the search function as you're more likely to find your own questions already answered ten-fold.

[darklighterz7611]

The biggest thing you must know about security pins is that you have to set them first before you can set any pins that aren't security pins.

Not necessarily true that is just one technique used to bypass security pins.

Other people get the lock into a false set and then pick the security pins and then re-pick the pins that become unset.

I prefer to pick like normal finding the binding pin (with the least amount of pick manipulation) and as i manipulate it i pay special attention to the feedback i get decide what type of pin i think it is and go from there.